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This is more of a rant than anything....

I just got back home from a large department store, only to find that in their book section, they are openly displaying two magic books for sale. now don't get me wrong, magic books are sold everywhere...what frustrates me most is that they are displayed wide open, when in magic shops they are usually behind counters, etc.

There were people browsing the books all the time I was there...and it came to annoy me somewhat. I have seen magic books in book stores before, but they are usually basics, some beginners stuff, etc....but the reason it really irked me this time, was that they both were very detailed and widely showed things like the TT, linking rings, how to use and make your own ID's...as well as virtually all the items that many would consider to be "standard materials" in the magic realm...many of the things shown in it were quite good and solid material.

My frustration (and please don't try to explain...blah, blah, blah to me about why I should or should not be frustrated, as I know full well that I am simply in a bad mood tonight) is that I would fully expect something of that calibre to only be sold in magic shops where it wouldn't be openly visible for people to sift the pages, or to be displayed in plastic wrapping so that you would need to purchase it prior to reading it.

Is is worth pointing this out to the store manager, do you think? Perhaps if you point out that they are potentially damaging the livelihood of magicians by displaying these books openly they might be inclined to display them with a little more discretion.

love
Gary
x

Magicians will go to the book store and see magic books stricking out like a sore thumb. Normal people will usually not. Someone going to the bookstore to look for a book on Computer Design, magicians aren't going to find these unless they're looking for them.

I wouldn't get to fussed over it. Unless everyone in the store is reading them...

Some of the earlier Magic Books, including World's Greatest Magic, the Walter Gibson Houdini books, Cards as Weapons and one of the Dunninger Books were all purchased from B.Dalton or Walden's book retailers and I'm certain there are a few in there that were picked up at discount stores like Woolworth or our version of Wal-Mart back in those days. Then again, I first learned the Center Tear and Professor's Nightmare off the back of cereal boxes and they could also be found in the old Scout handbooks as part of a merit badge credit... go figure!

But Guess What...

All that "exposure" to the public hasn't hurt magic nearly as much as the immature fools on YouTube or worse yet, the self-proclaimed "performers" that do a really shoddy job when it comes to presenting their tricks... more than a few of which managed to get Las Vegas headline status and even on Television.

Believe it or not, very few people in the world have the desire or the discipline required for sitting down and actually learning magic, that includes those that claim to "love it". Most that learn what is outlined in some of those rudimentary books will have forgotten it within a year's time, five years at most. The moral of the story being, it's not that big of a deal EXCEPT in the mind of the aspiring magician who's yet to learn that there is much more to it all than those base techniques... in other words, I've yet to see a conventional book store offering the complete Tarbell let alone some of the more advanced tomes out there; the mark-up just isn't there for them nor do such books come through their normal publishing suppliers very often.

If you want to get really upset over this, take a look at how many personal libraries belonging to former magic buffs, get sold off by relatives after they've died, at yard sells for pennies on the dollar or better yet, look at how many such books get donated to public libraries (not as much now as when I was younger, but it still happens), I've even picked up classic (collector's books) at antique shops, swap meets and the Salvation Army store so you really are barking a lot about something that simply isn't going to get readily fixed as well as a method that has encouraged more people to get involved with magic over the years.

Remember Houdini was first inspired by a booklet on how to do magic given away by Houdin. In fact, the majority of magic shows large and small have given away "premiums" for years; everything from 101 Tricks You Can Do to actual tricks like the Slide-Drawer Box, Finger Choppers and Coin Slides... I've even seen the old Coinpentro boxes (where little nails are forced through a borrowed coin) as a give away along with Chinese Sticks and even the little plastic sets of Cups & Balls or the Ball & Vase.

How did you get started into actually learning magic?

Ignore the TV show that inspired you or sparked your curiosity, where did you start your research and purchasing?

I'll bet, being a 21st century "kid" you went on line and either looked up Magic Shops or a specific effect concept...even the name of the performer or the style of magic they do, like Mind Reading.

How many BoodTube expose's did you find? If you have Torrent programs, how many "file share" groups did you encounter or just plain expose' forums?

All of these things hurt magic as a whole and though I'm quite aware of a little something that's soon to hit the fan that will cripple the less honorable on-line dealers and exposure groups, more will have to be done before WE can "fix" the problems that our greed -- our lust for knowledge as well as cash in hand, ego-strokes -- has brought about. That means that WE must first choose our fights and how to address them and then, stick to our guns when it comes to the complete devastation of those actually hurting this craft. It means taking on one issue at a time, starting with the protection of intellectual property and giving credit where it is due (as well as royalties).

There is no easy answer and most every action that is presently in the mix is going to constrict the access of information, just as it used to be prior to the information highway or FREE-way we've seen of late. That means that you will no longer be able to do that google search and readily find what it is that Mr. Brown does in his show or what you just witnessed Criss I Refuse to Grow-up Angel do on TV. Nor are you going to find the abundance of exceptional magic at your disposal. In fact, there is a massive collection of techniques and systems on the closed market right now; items that are sold by invitation only and even then in very limited amounts (most clinging to the magical 13 level of distribution world wide). Sellers are likewise looking at buyer's agreements with built in secrecy contracts; the purchase being more akin to a lease e.g .you do not have the right to just randomly sell the item or share information about it with anyone but those within your crew that have a "need to know" position. Don't laugh, there are at least a dozen such systems that I'm aware of currently on the market and heavily protected.

... and before certain folks attempt to make that claim an "issue" NO, I will not disclose what they are or who has them. If you are meant to know, you would know already. However, some such systems you have seen on television, I know that as fact.

So, the bottom line centers on what WE are willing to surrender and accept when it comes to a greater sense of protecting magic and its secrets. Where is the line in the sand and what is practical vs. ridiculous when it comes to such. After all, some of the more minor levels of exposure are what gave us people like Doug Henning or several of my own contemporaries.

Wait, I might be being thick right now or I'm just tired...

Are you suggesting that secrets should be made more secret and less accessible to the general public not to mention those new magicians who "want" to learn, like myself?

This is just a question, not meant to be taken in an accusatory or aggressive way I just want to confirm/deny what your post said.

Or are you saying that more advanced effects/routines etc. should be kept away until someone knows that you are ready.

Just a couple clarifying questions maybe I mis-read your post...

Or, one last thing, Are you saying that we shouldn't worry about it as the people who find these books in a bookstore won't take the time to actually learn magic? Or is it a combination of the above?

Sorry if I'm being "ignant".

There's also the opinion that magic isn't about the secrets and methods at all - rather it's about engaging the audience and entertaining them.

Yes, a big part of the entertainment comes from the creation of a crazy premise and impossible resolution (in much the same way as a stand-up comic will construct a set-up and punch for their gags), but if you're genuinely engaging the audience, they'll be just as entertained with a 50p finger chopper as any of the latest 'reputation makers' on the market.

Also, a well-known gimmick or method is no obstacle to creating a genuine moment of magic. Ball vases have been a standard part of childrens' magic sets for as long as I can remember, but Charlie Frye still managed to melt my brain when I saw his routine.

Similarly, no matter how well you think you understand the methods behind the cups and balls, a good, well-constructed routine will still have you losing track over what's where and leave you with no option but to switch off your analytical brain and just enjoy the magic. Nothing illustrates this more than Penn and Teller's clear cups and balls routine. Can you imagine the average spectator managing to follow that and understand it??

So, to my mind, it doesn't matter ow much 'truth is out there'. Do the magic right in performance, and it will still sneak up and bite spectators on the behind.

Pete

Don't get me wrong here guys...all posts had validity, I was just stating that I found it frustrating that a book was on wide display that not only talked about magic, it had in depth pictures of many of the gimmicks and gaffs in play today. I realize that the requirement of reading and practicing is still there...but the pictures simply offered an instant solution to the "mystery" of many tricks.

I also realize that the book stood out to me because I am a magician...but I am far less bothered by the books that "teach magic" and how to utilize the props that you may have around home or are included with the text...I feel no need to sell a book (in wide open markets like this) that explains magic and many of its secrets with regards to props people would not already own or do not come with the book itself...why reveal?

I was also suprised by the quality of the book itself...it was something you would expect to find in a magic show and for sale through that avenue...where you would need to purchase (or invest in the information) before you get to snoop the information....I have seen other books sold in this fashion, but they are shrink wrapped so that you would have to purchase first rather than just snoop.

As for the "performing and engaging" the audeince, compeltely agreed.....but the finding of the book came on the heels of a show that I just did that day and the virtually every orop I used in my routine routine was literally shown in detailed pics and descriptions through the book...was rather caught off gaurnd by it...I realize that in the day of the intertnet it is all available, I was just suprised that it was all in wide open display in a one stop shopping situation....at least on youtube you have to search and sift the good from the bad and may even need to know what you are looking for in some ways...this showed all hte props and gaffs openly.

I'm still not worried.

Take the TT, for examp,le. The whole point of it is that it's never seen. Yes, when a magician pokes a silk hanky into his or her hand, we all know what's afoot. But those who just 'know' about TTs and what they're for will be unaware of how a TT-based efect actually looks. And if you can make the loading action secondary to something else, you're still left with a first-rate miracle.

Consider David Williamson's use of a TT with his magic wand - or his salt pour routine, for that matter!

A trick deck of cards gaffed packet trick are still only presented as playing cards. So there's no 'prop' there for audiences to recognise.

In short, I feel that audiences who have just snooped information and know secrets (without ever having worked with them or performed magic in general) are still several steps behind performers, to the point where you could put stuff they 'know' right under their noses and they wouldn't catch on...

Pete

pcwells wrote:I'm still not worried.

Take the TT, for examp,le. The whole point of it is that it's never seen. Yes, when a magician pokes a silk hanky into his or her hand, we all know what's afoot. But those who just 'know' about TTs and what they're for will be unaware of how a TT-based efect actually looks. And if you can make the loading action secondary to something else, you're still left with a first-rate miracle.

Consider David Williamson's use of a TT with his magic wand - or his salt pour routine, for that matter!

A trick deck of cards gaffed packet trick are still only presented as playing cards. So there's no 'prop' there for audiences to recognise.

In short, I feel that audiences who have just snooped information and know secrets (without ever having worked with them or performed magic in general) are still several steps behind performers, to the point where you could put stuff they 'know' right under their noses and they wouldn't catch on...

Pete

You have put my mind at rest.

pcwells wrote:Take the TT, for examp,le. The whole point of it is that it's never seen. Yes, when a magician pokes a silk hanky into his or her hand, we all know what's afoot. But those who just 'know' about TTs and what they're for will be unaware of how a TT-based efect actually looks. And if you can make the loading action secondary to something else, you're still left with a first-rate miracle.

Consider David Williamson's use of a TT with his magic wand - or his salt pour routine, for that matter!

Teller's TT work is also very nice: there's a video on youtube (I'm not going to link to it, for obvious reasons, but it's the one where they go through the stages of sleight of hand) where he vanishes a cigarette and commenters are debating whether a TT is actually used ("I know how a TT works and that is not a TT!!!!")

I hear what you are saying...and I am not worried per se...just frustrated to some degree...props that are shown:

Linking rings in very vivid detail
The pairing, making, and set up of an ID
Folding coins
Coin shells
TT's
IT
Foam balls routines
Cups and chop cups
Card wallets
And numerous others

Again, I know what you are saying, but just was suprised to see them show (in very good pictures and still photography) many effects as well as the mechanics/gimmicks invololved...for example, the TT section did show the basic silk vanish, but went onto show the salt vanish as well as the bill switch...IT showed the various leviations, hummer card, etc...and the list goes on.

Shocked to see so much shown-in a department store

I was recently in a department store in Paris and found pseudo psychometry bags in the toy department for 15 Euros.

I bought them. They use a second spot principle, and are actually quit fun, as you can stuff tem in your pocket and use them close-up.

The box gave them a difficulty rating of 1- being extra easy But the instructions gave no time to the presentation of pseudo psychometry - you were just expected to open the bag and return the belongings.

So... am I bovvered??

Nah.

I'm bit obsessive about this sort of thing and just love to check out bookstores when on holiday or in other parts of the country. That's the point where I have mixed emotions, a) Disappointed because compared to the shelves and shelves of New Age stuff, Dreams, Living with Angels, Tarot books, Fortune Telling books, How to invoke magic spells for Love, Life , Harmony etc there are usually only one or two 'proper' magic books. In the UK Borders and Waterstones might have three or four and one of them will be Derren Brown, perhaps another will be Paul Zenon and that's about it. Then point b) takes over, thank goodness there are only a few 'cos that means the secrets are still relatively secure !

As to Mental Ian's question... YES, I do believe magic's secrets need to be made far more difficult to get hold of. Not the basics, mind you, just the "higher end" materials that have been overly abused and heavily disrespected even by those that think themselves "Magicians" -- the buy it now, learn how it works and forget about it gang who will later bad-mouth something they've not worked with... like all that old time thinking in Corinda and Dunninger (how many times have we heard the weenies whine on that front?)

Though I agree, to a point, with what PC and others have been suggesting I have to take my stand as a designer of magic that depends on his secrets remaining as such in order to generate income... something this "other school of thought" does not seem to lend consideration toward. But then, that is why things have been happening within Magic and the world of the innovators that will be escalated in the not so distant future.

Ian... don't feel that such actions will completely thwart your love for magic and learning. Though it will make things considerably more difficult when it comes to learning how the newer demonstrations of things done on TV (for example) are accomplished, you will still be able to work with PROFESSIONALS at the retail level (vs. the myriad of on-line hustlers) who will help you evolve as a more proficient performer, much in the way things were done in the days of Brick & Mortar shops, when the more promising students were taken under-wing for more direct instruction and guidance; something sorely missing from today's "culture".

I will also point out that expose' such as I spoke of earlier; the retail bookstores, cereal boxes, etc. is how younger imaginations get fueled and sparked into learning. It helps build confidence, imagination and the desire to learn in children, a small percentage of which will move deeper into magic (less than 10% who fall under the short-term spell as it were), some even becoming pros 20 years down the line. This sort of exposure being but introduction, not even Magic 101 and yet, the wannabe cries over it in ignorant selfishness.

Anywho... that's my two-cents worth of clarification.

my two early influences in magic came from the ladybird book of magic, and will dexter. both books came from an ordinary book store.

Its going to happen.Its a pain when they give away too much, but there you go. Theres a book in stores now, written by someone i chat to,( Cant remember his name) I want it for christmas.Mainly because there is only one copy in the shop, and it gives away half my working act

But im not going to look a prat in the shop by asking for it to be removed.