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i have only been doing magic for abt six months, and i can do some simple effects that still hit kinda hard. i routine with a color change into two card monte and then some ambitious card and usually close with Wayne Houchins stigmata, and any advice on a ways to improve it would be appreciated.

but my question is about gaffs. im looking to increase the effects i produce, and was considering buying a gaff deck but i was wondering how hard they are to work with and how hard they are to ring into and out of my deck. also, what would be a good gaff deck to get. i've seen ellusionist sells a really good ultragaff(Wayne Houchin and Daniel Garcia), as well as a ghost, black tiger, and red/blue bicycle gaff decks. so yea, help!!!!!

Uh, let's put it this way: Why would you pull out a different deck for each trick you did?

Most gaffed decks only do one trick.

And most are vastly overpriced for the effect that one trick has.

Stick with ungaffed Bikes and study, study, study card BOOKS and TAPES.

Don't forget there are effects to be had by bringing individual gaffed cards in and out of play. Using gaffed decks is fine so long as, as Marucci (sort of) states, it is logical for you to be getting decks in and out of pockets, or where-ever. The simplest reason is putting your cards away so you can do something else; then getting the same deck ( ) out later. If you're solely working with cards, then even a packet trick could be enough. I've seen some magicians put their cards away just to talk to the audience for a moment. Alternatively, you might bring a gaffed second deck out for a two deck trick. It's like anything in magic, really; you need a strong and logical motivation for your moves.

There are deck-switching sleights and gimmicks out there, but if you can build a strong and logical "easy" pocket switch into your routine, go with that.

There's a trade off you might want to think about. If you can do something with a gaffed deck but could do the same with a normal deck then it's generally better in the long run to learn to do it with the normal deck; you get more skilled and have more routining options, and having the "skilled version" doesn't destroy the possibility of doing it with a trick deck. I'm currently getting to grips with Michael Close's ID routine - the classic ID trick but without a gimmicked deck; just for the pleasure of handing the deck to the person so they can find their own card.

Often, though, a trick deck will allow you to do stuff in a more baffling way, and most importantly in a more hands off way. You might want to look at Irriversible and the Bogus Effect, as strong examples of this. Both use gimmicked decks in unusual ways, and most importantly in ways that do not scream "trick deck". Hands up who here has been utterly stumped by a trick that happens without the magician touching the deck, only to discover that it relies on a one-way forcing deck?

I'd echo what's been said about value, too. If you do want to pursue gaffed decks, look for things that are adaptable to more than one effect. One way forcing decks, IDs, and even the humble sven will get you into more than a single trick.

I'd agree with Mr_Grue - avoid the one-trick packs.

Get yourself a copy of Hugard's "Encyclopedia of Card Tricks", which will give you a good idea of the versatility of the more common gaffs and mechanical packs.


Barry

If you're looking for a good gaffed deck, both the ID and the stripper deck are worth looking at. There's alot that you can do with both of these and the stripper can be used like an ordinary deck so you can easily do a full routine without ever having to swap out.

When it comes to deck switches, Annemans 202 Methods of Forcing might be worth a read.

I think with the price of these Ellusionist Gaff decks you're best off buying some of the books people recommend on here.

I used to be completely purist with decks, and would frown upon Gaffs as ' cheating '. Which is ridiculous. We're magicians, we cheat the audience.

A deck with a short card is a Gaffed deck, but a lot cheaper than the fancy ones and you can do a hell of a lot with it too. The ID deck is great, and something i carry around along with a normal deck, which is usually rigged up so i can launch into Oz Pearlman's Perfection if i need to.

You've got some good stuff going on in your routine but, and this is just my opinion, i'd start with your hardest hitting stuff first. Stigmata is an effect that will pack a bigger punch than your colour change so do it first, that way when you do a colour change afterwards they're more likely to believe it magic rather than just sleight of hand. Just my tuppenth worth.

Greetings flaw07 and welcome to Talk Magic. In fairness, i think your question was specifically to do with gaffs, and not trick decks but rather what type of gaff deck, e.g as you say UltraGaff or the Ghost gaff deck, or the Red Gaff deck, etc, etc. as opposed to those trick decks such as Invisible or Stripper decks, et al. There are also "gaff decks" in the sense of utility gaffs I suppose you could call them, in which there aren't gaffs with, for instance, a blurry image or shaken pips, but gaffs that will assist in the cration of tricks. I'm not sure if I can say anymore for exposure reasons, but these are gaffs such as "d**ble f*c*rs", etc and you can buy decks consisting of such gaffs, or an assortment of such gaffs.

Also specifically, you wanted to know how easy it is working such gaffs into your deck. I've been doing magic for a over a year, and there are a few gaffs / gimmicks I use, although I've never recoursed to spending £18 on a full Bicycle Red Gaff Deck. The biggest problem is working them surreptiously into the pack, and you have to perhaps wait for a lull, off beat, or make some excuse to rationionalise / hide some ostensible set up of the pack. This in itself is no big deal if you palm cards or have good audience control and / or misdirection.

HOWEVER, the reason it is difficult and impractical is if you are using several gaffs. For example, if you wanted to do multiple effects using several gaffs you obviously need several gaffs in various locations. The trouble being, the more gaffs in play, the harder it is in terms of pocket management. At best I wear a normal jacket (I don't go for the whole Tom Ford "blazer and jeans" look as I think it's a bit dated: no offence to those who indulge this fashion, it has its merits for pocket management!), and so realistiically you are only able to have a few gaffs, unless you stack 2 or 3 in each pocket in a certain order. In summer, I simply carry one pack of cards and an Invisble Deck (optional), some packet effects in two plastic wallets, and two sponge balls. So in one particular night if you were using cards from Gaff Deck, you're restricted in what to bring, and although varied in the long run, what matters is when you perform your spec doesn't know that you have a plethora of such effects, they only see what you show them and so a Gaff Deck is irrelevant and you would have spent, effectively, £18 on a handful of moderate effects on each night. Accordingly, such decks seem hideously overkill.

Finally, after all these problems you have to consider the effects from your own and the lay audience's view. Yes, it's cool to shake a playing card and for the pips to move to one side, but ultimately they know it's a gimmicked card. I've had this performed on me as a layman some time ago. At best, it's quirky and visual, but think of each possible effect with each gaff: you need to maximise each effect you do, and there are arguablly much better packet effects than an effect using a gaff. Or, as the advice said thus far, it's much better to concentrate on learning sleights and skills from books or DVDs. From experience, there is a temptation to rely on gimmicks and gaffs, it's a good way to get those "wow" responses in your early magic days, but things go full circle and the better you get the more you realise that the best gimmick is in fact an ordinary Bicycle deck and knowledge how to use it. I'm still learning...

In any case, if you look at the gaffs on offer in say the Ghost or UltraGaff Deck, well, frankly some of them are naff. A love heart on a card? A picture of a skeleton on a grave with a card? it's the same with a bar code revelation on a pack of cards, e.g. "2 O7 5P4D3S", as a spec you'd be thinking: "ah, so it's a specially designed card or box. Clever". That would be it. You also have to come up with your own routine, but ultimately you're just thinking of a means to reveal a gaffed card, and so you're really thinking of different ways to present what is, mechanically, the same effect. If you are determined on still getting Gaffs, however, there are better gaffs around you can buy that you can get without having to buy a whole deck. For instance, there's a playing card which says "Any Card" on the face, and you could have fun practising a Classic Force with it. I think I saw it on Cards4magic or summat.

As to "trick decks": don't knock them, they are a one trick pony, but by gosh, that effect can be awesome, although I've only used the ID, and for good reason, as spectators always remember it.

gaffed decks are my main "WOW Factor" tricks.

I know 3 or 4 really good tricks with normal cards, and if u can get a normal deck out to an audience to show them it's the real mckoy and switch it after a couple of normal deck tricks then that works as well.

Gaffed decks like the invisible zone r ur best bet.

Rufio wrote: the best gimmick is in fact an ordinary Bicycle deck and knowledge how to use it.

Good speech.

Rufio wrote:it's the same with a bar code revelation on a pack of cards, e.g. "2 O7 5P4D3S", as a spec you'd be thinking: "ah, so it's a specially designed card or box. Clever". That would be it.

Gotta say i bought a Masters Deck once ( nice Ace of Spades! errrr thats about it ), and it had one of those bar codes on the box. I forced that card on someone, did an ACR for a while, then held up the box and said ' See that bar code? ', they replied they did, i then wiped my thumb over it and asked them to look again. This time they saw it and freaked. Won't work with everyone, some are too sharp, but judge your specs well and it's quite a good one.

Anyway, back on topic.

Aaaaagh! At risk of repeating myself (I'm going to have to save this in a file and just copy and paste each time...) - Flaw07:

Welcome to the boards! One small thing - would you please in future put something in the subject line that at least hints at - well - the subject of the thread? Almost every post in "support and tips" is a request for "advice" of some sort, and if you leave the subject vague, people who's interest lies elsewhere entirely end up clicking on it, only to go "d'oh, dammit" and click the back button. Doesn't sound like too much effort but when it happens all the time it really does get annoying!

Sorry to be a misery, and please don't feel I'm having a go at you - it's just something that other members here will really, really appreciate.

Cheers

If you are looking to but tricks involving gaffs then I think this may be of interest to you http://www.penguinmagic.com/product.php?ID=887 you are supplied with all the necessary gaffs and instructions to use them for four effects.

Grimshaw wrote:I think with the price of these Ellusionist Gaff decks you're best off buying some of the books people recommend on here.

I used to be completely purist with decks, and would frown upon Gaffs as ' cheating '. Which is ridiculous. We're magicians, we cheat the audience.

A deck with a short card is a Gaffed deck, but a lot cheaper than the fancy ones and you can do a hell of a lot with it too. The ID deck is great, and something i carry around along with a normal deck, which is usually rigged up so i can launch into Oz Pearlman's Perfection if i need to.

You've got some good stuff going on in your routine but, and this is just my opinion, i'd start with your hardest hitting stuff first. Stigmata is an effect that will pack a bigger punch than your colour change so do it first, that way when you do a colour change afterwards they're more likely to believe it magic rather than just sleight of hand. Just my tuppenth worth.

i agree with you that they are pricey, and i borrowed a friends copy of ultragaff vol 1 and 2 and the tricks are for the most part gimicky but i like the stuff you can do with simple double backed cards so i was wondering where i could possibly get some of those for decent prices (USD plz the currency conversion rates for me to buy in euro are hellish)

also, the idea of using stigmata first, i like it and i see where you are coming from but i was using it mostly as a closing piece, so it i move it two the front what could i replace it with, i know Kaos(card through window) and some other stuff like that but i suck at palming cards so i don't like to use them. any ideas?

Grimshaw wrote:I think with the price of these Ellusionist Gaff decks you're best off buying some of the books people recommend on here.

I used to be completely purist with decks, and would frown upon Gaffs as ' cheating '. Which is ridiculous. We're magicians, we cheat the audience.

A deck with a short card is a Gaffed deck, but a lot cheaper than the fancy ones and you can do a hell of a lot with it too. The ID deck is great, and something i carry around along with a normal deck, which is usually rigged up so i can launch into Oz Pearlman's Perfection if i need to.

You've got some good stuff going on in your routine but, and this is just my opinion, i'd start with your hardest hitting stuff first. Stigmata is an effect that will pack a bigger punch than your colour change so do it first, that way when you do a colour change afterwards they're more likely to believe it magic rather than just sleight of hand. Just my tuppenth worth.

i agree with you that they are pricey, and i borrowed a friends copy of ultragaff vol 1 and 2 and the tricks are for the most part gimicky but i like the stuff you can do with simple double backed cards so i was wondering where i could possibly get some of those for decent prices (USD plz the currency conversion rates for me to buy in euro are hellish)

also, the idea of using stigmata first, i like it and i see where you are coming from but i was using it mostly as a closing piece, so it i move it two the front what could i replace it with, i know Kaos(card through window) and some other stuff like that but i suck at palming cards so i don't like to use them. any ideas?

You can get a deck of double backers for £3.99 from MagicNevin OR you can get blue double backers for 20p each from WizmoMagic (red is always out of stock, it seems). The assorted gaff deck is £5.50. MagicNevin's prices are generally great, although it's £10 min order for free postage. I'm sure you can find other things on there to get free postage tho.

flaw07 wrote:also, the idea of using stigmata first, i like it and i see where you are coming from but i was using it mostly as a closing piece, so it i move it two the front what could i replace it with, i know Kaos(card through window) and some other stuff like that but i suck at palming cards so i don't like to use them. any ideas?

You could practice palming

Seriously though, it sounds like you're approaching this from a street magic kind of angle, in the sense that you're going up to people and doing this stuff up close and personal. To that end, you dont want them to lose interest, there are some weirdos out there who arent interested in magic. I know i know, it takes all sorts.
Anyway, i can see that you're trying to build to a climax and that's good, but once you've really freaked someone out with Stigmata, whatever you do after it may not get such extreme reactions but it will still get remembered. By doing your strongest effect last that may be all they recall of the routine. If thats the case there's no point in doing any of your other stuff, you might as well just do the one effect.

Not everyone will agree with me, and its just my opinion, but thats the way i do things.