talkmagic.co.uk

i recently visited this site: http://obsoleteskills.com/

can we compile a list of obsolete magic tricks

for instance, malini made a card disappear in his waist coat - this is a lost art, i assume

so, entry one:

1. WAISTING = The use of a waistcoat for tricks

any thoughts?

cheers

The raven - Hehe....just making fun, not a serious post

I wouldn't have said that any magic tricks are obsolete, it's just that some don't aways fit in with the circumstances that you might be in. If you were working a formal event then you may well be wearing a waistcoat.

well, you mention vesting. ( though i still do it, in my shirt rather than the waistcoat )

You can add to that "cuffing". The envanishment of a small coin into the turn-up of the trouser.

daleshrimpton wrote:You can add to that "cuffing". The envanishment of a small coin into the turn-up of the trouser.

I read the section on "Cuffing" in Bobo's and well...I just stared blankly at the page before deciding it wasn't for me.

The rise of television, the internet, and all forms of digital media have done less harm to magic than the decline of the waistcoat.

Arguably, "obsolete" magic would include primarily anything that offends the current social norms - for example:

1) Damage and abuse of animals (there are plenty of effects in Sachs' "Sleight of Hand" and even in Tarbell that would kill or injure the animals involved. Sachs has a dove production from a wine bottle which involves stuffing the poor creature in head-first, and breaking the bottle...

2) Anything with racial or political connotations. There are plenty of older magic books and acts that refer to Eastern mysticism and worse, the dark and unpleasant acts that "Negroes" or even "Communists" perpetrate.

3) There are plenty of stunningly beautiful effects involving productions from paper cones. These are not obsolete per se, but certainly made a lot more sense when similar cones were actually used to sell groceries and so forth.

4) Gimmicked coins based on denominations no longer in circulation!

5) Again, arguably, but there are several psychological forces which are dependant on a time and fashion - an example of this includes Derren Brown's coin routine in "Pure Effect", which is barely workable now, but would have been lovely just a few years ago.

There's nothing out there that can't be adapted to work as well today as it did when it was written. You might not be able to do it exactly how it was written but with a little thought it can be made to work. I don't like anything involving animals but instead of using real animals, use a soft toy instead.

now that is, i have to say total balls.

the dove in bottle, doesnt in any way, shape or form harm the bird.

the bottles are made from metal, they have air holes in one end so the bird can breathe, and are not really broken, they are split in two.

the bird actually has more room in this production item, than in most dove holders. Once in place they fall asleep, because its dark and warm.

Indeed a dove would never be squashed, since this prop was originaly created to take a small bunny, or guinnie pig.

Having read Tarbell many, many times , i can 100% guarentee that NO effect involving livestok will dammage, or abuse the trained creature.

as far as the racial or political connotations, this material comes from a pre pc age, when this kind of patter was common. it is not common now. This patter does not, and should not detract from teh magical effects.

gimmicked coins that are no longer in circulation, are still being used by many. old british coinage like the old penny is still the coin that most people use in constructing copper silver, and sun and moon gaffs.
yet this was removed from circulation in the 70s.

I find the coin effect still works in 80% of the cases.

DominicRougier wrote:5) Again, arguably, but there are several psychological forces which are dependant on a time and fashion - an example of this includes Derren Brown's coin routine in "Pure Effect", which is barely workable now, but would have been lovely just a few years ago.

"Barely workable"?

I beg to differ.

There's a routine by Max Malini which uses the glass chimney off an oil lamp and which, I suppose, would be less likely to be impromptu these days but if a suitable oil lamp is placed in situ beforehand, perhaps as dressing for the performance area, it's still very do-able in these high tech times. Not sure what all that proves other than most old and classic effects can be reworked or bought up to date. Shirts with double cuffs are a great utility for vanishing - not so easy to retrieve as trouser cuffs but what the heck. Anyway, I haven't had cuffs (aka 'turn-ups') on my strides for over 40 years !

I guess in the Politically Correct world of ours, the hiding a midget effect by Dunninger is pretty obsolete now

http://www.talkmagic.co.uk/ftopic4659.p ... ght=midget

To be honest I am not that happy about it. In fact I get quite grumpy thinking about it. I am bashful to admit that I once considered perfoming it (I had a suitble height challenged person in mind to help and everything). The problem was that my little guy was alergic to the rig I had set upo and became quite sneezy, so much so that we had to call the Doc who said I was Dopey just to think about it.

Who does he think he was. Snow White?

ok - with that all being said I would like to agree with whoever saiid nothing was obsolete (Lady of Mystery?) - they are in my mind all future methods waiting to be re-discovered and more than likely sold as a new idea. That is the way of magic.

I love it.

I saw that performed once Bananafish, I didn't like it either. In fact it was so boring, I felt quite sleepy by the end

but after she had 7 up, she felt fine

daleshrimpton wrote:now that is, i have to say total balls.

eesh... that's pretty harsh for this time in the morning :'(

the dove in bottle, doesnt in any way, shape or form harm the bird.

the bottles are made from metal, they have air holes in one end so the bird can breathe, and are not really broken, they are split in two.

Not in Sachs. Certainly there are improved methods, but as described it's pretty horrendous - also, see the vanishing birdcage effect and compare it to the more modern versions with a plastic bird

Having read Tarbell many, many times , i can 100% guarentee that NO effect involving livestok will dammage, or abuse the trained creature.

He does mention producing a rabbit by holding it up by the ears...

as far as the racial or political connotations, this material comes from a pre pc age, when this kind of patter was common. it is not common now. This patter does not, and should not detract from teh magical effects.

I'd make a case for the voodoo curse/comedy routine throughout "Magic and Showmanship" as being too tied to it's theme and also potentially offensive.

gimmicked coins that are no longer in circulation, are still being used by many. old british coinage like the old penny is still the coin that most people use in constructing copper silver, and sun and moon gaffs.
yet this was removed from circulation in the 70s.

Hmmm... fair enough. I mean, I wouldn't use them myself, but then I suppose I wouldn't wear a top hat and attempt to borrow a gentleman's handkerchief either, so I suppose it has it's place.

I find the coin effect still works in 80% of the cases.

Again, fair enough, I've just been really unlucky with it then! c'est la vie.

magic and showmanship was written many years ago. I have often said that It should be updated to remove many things. But then so should other books.

The issue i have isnt that books contain sensitive materials, Its that some people look at the contents, and perform verbatim, rather than adapting and updating the stuff to suit a modern audience.

Sachs isnt a good book .Much of it is cribbed from other works, like hofmans modern magic.

Now, the bird cage. yes this was originaly a bit of a bird killer. but you have to look at things in context.
it was invented at a time when peoples views on animal wellfare was completely different. This due in part, to farm practices.
people had small holdings, kept geese, pigs and chickens for food, and hunted for game and trophy. an animal was looked upon as a thing, rather than a living creature, seperate from emotions.

totaly different from the way we view animals today here in the west.