talkmagic.co.uk

This may sound like a totaly obvious question, but I feel it will make a good discussion.


How fickle do you think the magic market is an why?

How do you feel that Magic/mentalism has changed over the years?

do you think that when there is a particular Magician/Entertainer on tv that this changes dramatically the way in which Magic Fashions rise and evolve much like the clothing world?

With the original Blaine series and the rise of people like Criss Angel, do you think Magic Shops have seen a massive increase in sales of close-up, and when for example Derrens shows feature do you think there is a sudden rush at Magic shops in mentalism sales?

this strengthens my case for a debates section of the forum!!

2nded

How fickle do you think the magic market is an why?

I wouldn't call it "fickle" just obsessed in chasing after the next big trend in order to capitalize on it. The merchants want to have the products that are tied to the trends, while the enthusiasts want the tricks that allow them to look like the guys & gals that helped create the trend...

You will notice that I didn't say "the pros" in that very few working professionals have the time or desire to chase such fads; many being so busy that they aren't even aware of them. They work a set act that most of them have done for years rather than tossing in a myriad of new stuff every moth, just to keep up with the Jones', as we say over this way.


How do you feel that Magic/mentalism has changed over the years?

It's become far too accessible and thus, exploited (think YOUTUBE). Magic has (for a time) lost it's ability to stay closed and a secret and it's taken much of the past decade for innovators, primary merchants and publishers to figure out how to overcome the accessibility issues as well as the protection of material; keeping it out of the hands of the bootleggers and thieves, as well as those idiots that reveal everything on line.

The "greed" that has been created within the industry; lust for the knowledge as well as the various delusions connected to our world such as the belief that you are "someone" just because you made a video or put out an ebook as well as those that have built forums around themselves and their products, thinking themselves "elite" when in truth, they are very much unknown. But such delusions go further; just look at how many people now "own" a magic business on line and how the majority of them offer the exact same thing everyone else does. There are a few exceptions to this which, in my opinion, should become models for the others to evolve towards, such as Eddie Burke's shop in which 99% of what's offered is original to him or close associates NOT the same old thing you find everywhere else. Then again, you have guys like Bob Kohler and Jerome Finely that have very exclusive material, much of which is sold only to people they have screened and entrust (after signing a purchase agreement and secrecy contract). But then we're talking about manuscripts that sell for between $350.00 and $1,000.00 in some cases.


do you think that when there is a particular Magician/Entertainer on tv that this changes dramatically the way in which Magic Fashions rise and evolve much like the clothing world?

Prior to David Blaines first special the primary focus within magic was major stage illusions and had been since the early 1970s and the rise of both, Doug Henning and David Copperfield. Though you would find those that specialized in other areas, grand illusion was it! But Blaine his the scene and proved that you could slay the nation on National TV with a prop budget of less than $200.00 vs. Copperfield's annual budget over $100,000.00 +. Blaine took the magic to the streets and in more intimate settings, making magic more real and tangible; he blended the techniques of the Mentalist (invoking belief from his patrons) with the more traditional styling common to traditional magic. Though it was a great angle at first, it seemed to have given a false sense of permission in the mind of others, that mixing common tricks with mentalism was A-Ok, bastardizing the two and bringing out an onslaught of half-wits that not only didn but wouldn't understand the differences between the two forms; their mind convincing them that a trick is a trick and thus, limiting them as performers and revealing a grotesque lack of respect towards both, the art itself and those that work within it as their vocation.

Yes, what people see on Tv will affect magic on the retail side. One of the jokes about the annual Copperfield specials what that it was a catalog demonstrating what everyone needed to have in their shows for the next season. John Gaughan, Bill Smith and Owens having huge boosts in orders the first two weeks following a Copperfield program. We've seen the same affect when Blaine, Angel or Brown his the screen... just look at the threads in most any public forum on magic and how much reference is made to these three in particular; very little being said about the real "artists" that are out there like Jason Latimer or even someone like Banachek. The reality being that few strive to go outside of what they've seen and heard about in that the majority of those calling themselves "Magicians" are little other than hobbyists that do the occasional show here and there and all to frequently (and unknowingly sometimes) undercut the working pros, stealing gigs out from undercutting them... oddly, many don't give a darn that such was done... again, demonstration of lost respect.


With the original Blaine series and the rise of people like Criss Angel, do you think Magic Shops have seen a massive increase in sales of close-up, and when for example Derrens shows feature do you think there is a sudden rush at Magic shops in mentalism sales?

My response to the previous question more or less covers this and the fall-out around it.

Thankyou Craig that is superb, just the sought of thing i was looking for, thankyou for goin so in depth...cheers that man

Craig Browning wrote:I wouldn't call it "fickle" just obsessed in chasing after the next big trend in order to capitalize on it. The merchants want to have the products that are tied to the trends, while the enthusiasts want the tricks that allow them to look like the guys & gals that helped create the trend...

You will notice that I didn't say "the pros" in that very few working professionals have the time or desire to chase such fads; many being so busy that they aren't even aware of them. They work a set act that most of them have done for years rather than tossing in a myriad of new stuff every month, just to keep up with the Jones', as we say over this way.

One of the biggest eye-openers I've had of late was reading the description of bad magicians in the essays on presentation in Expert Card Technique; a sketch of a huge market of magicians desperately pursuing the next great trick thinking it will be the one that will transform them into a Robert-Houdin, and never finding it. It could so easily have been written in the last twelve months.

Robert-Houdin

and thats not ironic is it

The magic market is very much like any other market, in that it bends with the prevailing wind -- or, in this case, the prevailing "hot" item or personage.

A few years ago, it was Doug Henning; everyone was appearing in "psuedo hippie" clothes and doing pretty much what Henning did on TV; the only difference was that they were doing it badly.

Then it was Copperfield; then Blaine; then Angel; next ?????

If a trick is shown, by a name, on TV, the magic shops are sold out the next day; the trick is scooped up by what are essentially hobbyists who want to have the latest thing.

The late, and truly great Karrell Fox commented that, when he went into a new magic shop, he said: "What's old?" rather than "What's new?", because he knew (and so should you!) that the best effects and routines have stood the test of time and, equally importantly, aren't plastic junk made solely to be sold and not to entertain.