talkmagic.co.uk

Ok folks, having read a lot of the posts on here, I've decided to cut back on buying "off the shelf tricks" and focus more on how I can make stuff happen with ordinary stuff. I've got a few card booklets, with some of the basic stuff, and a pack of Bicycle cards and plenty free time.......so watch this space...

I still think some off the shelf magic is quite good....for example D'lites, but if I can do plenty of magic with a borrowed shuffled deck, and know several good sleights, that will help me move from a difficulty "2" to a difficulty "3" right?


Whoosh,

Definitely puts you in a stronger position if you can just work with whatever you're given. You can have all sorts of stuff hidden - writers, ITRs, TTs, etc. - but as long as they never know you've used it, it's as if you've never used it, making the trick all the more interesting. Also, the presumption is always that you don't have it, and that's something you can really play to your advantage.

Lord, spare us from YET ANOTHER doer of just card tricks

It seems Peter doesn't approve Woosh. I guess before learning principles of magic you better make sure its something he likes rather than what you like.

That's what I love about this forum, amateurs and learners can come here, express an interest in something and have it ridiculed by people who are probably older, more experienced and who should know better.

Where were you at fright night peter? We had people trying out all sorts of new things and it would have been brilliant if you'd been there to tell us what we can and can't do.

I suppose I see your point though, the internet is tiny and highly regulated, it's not like you can ignore the type of magic you have no interest in and focus on what you do like.

Too bad magic Woosh, you took advice, tried to better yourself and looked to this forum for support, but the great peter has spoken, no help for you!

Jean Eugene Roberts wrote:Where were you at fright night peter?

Canada?

It's a tricky one. Peter genuinely believes (and he has a lot of experience) that merely doing card tricks gets old very fast. A lot of card workers think exactly the opposite.

Isn't it better if someone suggests that doing solely card stuff might bore some audiences rigid than only the cardicians appear and say it's definitely the way to go?

I'm not sure Peter expressed his sentiments in quite the most helpful way, but it is a valid viewpoint.

What I would say to MagicWhoosh is this:

1. Cutting back on single tricks is usually a good thing, especially early on. You get much better value for money from a good book.

2. Being able to work with everyday objects and borrowed decks is also a very good thing.

3. Variety is the spice of life, both for your audiences and probably for you as a student of magic.

4. Forget about difficulty ratings. They are highly subjective, and it's pointless to aim to upgrade yourself. What you should be aiming to do is present entertaining magic. There are people around who can do knuckle-busting sleights as easy as winking, but who struggle to engage the audience.

True, and if his point was simply that 'learning nothing but card tricks will not get you far' then I would agree. I've been known to come off as offensive when I didn't mean it and if peter wasn't just insulting someone for learning card magic then I spoke out of turn. I did feel as though he was coming of as needlessly aggressive, however and while I'm more interested in bizzarist magic right now, I will always have a love for card magic, that I feel is somewhat under appreciated at times.

The difficulty with JUST cards is one of it being entertaining.

Personally, I agree with Peter as unless you have the personality to go with the skills of Lennart Green, then taking just a card act out to an audience is very difficult in most situations. I may have put it across in a different way though.

When you start adding some variety, then YOU become more interesting to an audience and THEY start to look at you as more of a magician than a card sharp/cheat. If someone doesn't like a card trick then they may enjoy your rope work or your coin work etc. Variety usually increases the likelihood of you being entertaining.

If you want to be performing to an audience then personally, I would recommend adding as much variety as you possibly can. This is where the enjoyment of being a magician comes from - getting out there and performing for an audicence.

don't forget, its all about the premise too - i can't do any real coin magic to save my life...i did try, i just didnt get the knack - but a £2/2p coin unique and i can do something unusual with it...

put it up my bum, for instance...

after that - i can do some real magic with it...

i hope my example does not lead you to doing lots of card/coin to bum effects...

IAIN wrote:i hope my example does not lead you to doing lots of card/coin to bum effects...

Card to spec's bum: now there's an idea that'll get you in trouble.

I agree that there's an issue surrounding "entertainment value" for someone who ONLY does card tricks, but really so what? If you want to do just cards, then do just cards. If people aren't entertained they can p*ss off

Of course, if they're paying you then it's a different matter!

kolm wrote:

IAIN wrote:i hope my example does not lead you to doing lots of card/coin to bum effects...

Card to spec's bum: now there's an idea that'll get you in trouble.

yeah, i didnt think it through - marbles would be much easier...

slightly off topic. But I hate this 'one' trick or trick off the shelf attitude. Every trick is just one trick. Sure get out your cards and do twenty tricks, (lord help us all) but each one is just one trick. It doesn't matter what the bloody tricks are if you routine them together they form a show (hopefully) and believe it or not you can purchase a packet trick, you can purchase a whole whack of them and they are still not just one trick if you routine them correctly.

Further more it doesn't matter what slight of hand you know or don't know. By all means keep adding the tools to your tool chest but for cripes sake don't just learn sleights in hopes of using them later by the time you find an effect for them you will have probably forgotten how to use them. Concentrate instead on the effects you want to learn and learn that effect no matter what it involves, if it involves a double back multi sided 3 faceted gimmicked card then get one. If it uses a Gary Kurtz's finger tip longnitudinal palm then spend your life learning the move if that is what it takes to learn the effect you want.

More difficult and more involved and simply more, more, more does not make you a better or worse magician. Heck I'd rather, (and so would most) watch a really good svengali pitchman do his stuff rather then sit through yet another unshuffled or 10 minute ACR.

Talking to some of the 'best' of the best what usually got them involved in magic was a rinky dink magic set or an uncle pulling a coin out of an ear. Think about it.

sponge rabbits it is then!