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Don't think you should have to. Reviews are an opinion after all. If that's your honest opinion then stick to it.

My experience of this effect is that a friend performed it for me a few months ago at a table in a pub. I was knocked back, and after I convinced myself that the dice wasn't loaded I was really impressed. I couldn't figure it out then and I never have worked it out. This is a really commercial effect with a great ready-made patter.

I think the only reason I haven't ordered it myself is that I just don't like the logo on the box. It's a shame they did that.

Charles, are you talking about "Diceman", by any chance?

"Killer Elite" is an entirely different effect by the talented Mr Nyman.

I have both and "Diceman" works a treat. "Killer Elite" is good, but I'm working on something of my own inspired by it.

I think the only reason I haven't ordered it myself is that I just don't like the logo on the box. It's a shame they did that.

I share your feelings on that and usually hide the logo as much as I can. I have seen same sized business card holders in similar material and, as soon as I can get my hand son one, will swap it staright away!

Yes, the logo is a bit tacky and the die design isn't even accurate. It was clearly drawn by someone unfamiliar with what a die looks like. How difficult would it have been to have got that right?

So true! I don't usually use the die supplied, I use the one from Dice Thru' Mirror which is much better quality and it means I can move on to that routine if appropriate. Having had that bit of a moan, it's still one of my favourites!

Goldfish, I think you are missing my point. Ok I used the Derren trick as an example and you dismissed it by saying it was a TV effect. What though if there were a version like killer elite for close up, but using 50 cards and they picked the right one. Surely that's better than 4 cards.

I don't know how you presented it to your students but I can't see any way that an intelligent thinking person could fail not to guess the secret if performed twice in succesion and they choose a different killer. Actually I'd have thought a pretty dim person would guess it, I really can't get my head around that at all, even if you perfomed it naked for maximum distraction i'd still expect people to work it out. The only people that might struggle are those with short term memory loss.

D'oh! I just logged onto the board and started looking for that 'Diceman' thread I posted to yesterday, wondering 'Why can I not find it?'. I'm losing it. Sorry.

Personally I would do whatever I could to avoid performing KE for the same audience twice. But since doing that breaks 'Rule #3'* in any case I wouldn't necessarily be too harsh on an effect just for that reason. Derren Brown's Extreme Mental Effort from the Devil's Picturebook is one of my all time favourite effects and easily rates a ten in my book. For all practical purposes though you couldn't repeat it. But you'd be mad to want to - it's a closer.
I think the difference between a one-in-four and a one-in-fifty effect would be lost on a lot of lay people. It just comes down to 'How could he be that sure I'd pick the right one? How was I controlled?'.

KE comes with quality props and a good patter. It's another very commercial effect. Goldfish's opinion is just as valid as anyones. Reviews are subjective and if he thinks it's a ten there'll be a lot of other people who would also think it's a ten. So long as a review is informative people can make up their mind.


(*NB Rule #1: Don't talk about secrets. Rule#2: Don't talk about secrets. Rule #3: Never perform the same effect using the same method for the same audience twice)

This thread is going a little weird as half of it seems to be about diceman and half about killer elite.

both (imo) excellent effects.

I tend to agree with Happy Toad that Killer Elite should never be performed twice to the same spectators, and frankly I fail to see why you would even want to. One of the great unwritten rules of magic is not to do this even if it is an effect that allows it. Of course there are always exceptions to every rule, but Killer Elite is not one of them.

On the discussion about whether or not the effect should be marked down just because it can't be repeated - I would have to say not. The review rating is not one created by committee (god forbid), but rather how good the effect is to the individual reviewer and so for that reason alone I think it should stay as it is.

I'd also be reluctant to mark it down for that reason anyway. Maybe if it was to be marked out of a 1000 it would lose a few points, but if the effect plays really well to an audience and you get great reactions - so what if it can't be repeated. Should it be rated higher if it could be done with more objects? No not really. It would (imo) be a totally different trick anyway, but from the spectators point of view I don't believe the enjoyment would be any greater.

The trick could be much better or much worse depending on how it is presented, but this is no reason to mark it higher or lower.

Wise words bananafish!

Sorry
Didn't meant to start the 'repetition' debate

A whole new 'Rating' thread has been started somewhere else. Looks interesting...

Sorry for going off-topic.
Can we have a link to the new thread then?

Review Ratings are now being discussed at http://www.talkmagic.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=3261

I was just going to say the same my self. So fair enough, end of discussion.

LOL...

Well, almost end of discussion...

Can I just add that Killer Elite is an absolutely awesome effect, and more than worthy of the highest accolades.

Complaints about methods, props, etc. can all be taken on board–but at face value, what counts here is the effect. And if we boil it down to it's basics–this is an effect which will have a serious impact.

It's quick, neat, visual and direct. It works both as an intimate effect (a-la-Goldfish's comments) OR as a stage effect (in an intimate environment) BECAUSE it is so visual.

After watching the performance on the Get Nyman DVD, it is clear that this effect is pure performance. Who cares there's not much choice? Who cares the postcards are what they are - i.e. gangster/villan films?

The whole crux of this is the plot, the absorbing quality of the storyline, then the shock of the revelation.

The rating systems are agreeably nonsense in this scenario, as there's a degree of 'each to their own' about effects/tricks.

The justification of whether you should buy an effect or not based on a review is clear and evident–if the review is:

A: Revealing and clear
B: Well written and considerate to pros AND cons
C: Appealing to everyone
D: Informative, descriptive and honest

And, what better way to point this out than Goldfish's review.

Killer Elite? Just read the trick description on Alakazam. It does what it says, and extremely well.