Infinite wrote:Does this mean you can open the door to manifest destiny vs free will?
Cause it sounds like they are saying fate will smack you down for playing in their own territory. So that means there is no such thing as free will.
Ergo mediums then become useless because you can not alter what is to be. ... or they become useless because after they tell you it won't come to pass.
(Note: I am not poking the bear its a thought exercise)
Those of the more Skeptical mind tend to conveniently forget the difference between "Prophecy" and "Divination" -- Divination is simply the use of an oracular "science" to see what the most probable outcome is going to be based on current energy, intent, etc. It does not take away one's freedom of will at any level but actually works with it, allowing the querant to make a wiser choice. That is why you find Kings and Generals in ancient times, consulting the Seers and Wizards for insight as to what they should do or, in some cases, how to cheat the situation (not that Uthar Penndragon would have done any such thing for the sake of purest lust, mind you).
Prophecy (debatably) is more carved in stone and generally involves a group or people such as a nation, region, race, etc. on one level most Prophecy is an arrogant expression akin to "my dad can beat your dad" attitudes in the most of it stems from one religious cult affirming ultimate triumph over another (as well as the world itself; placing all of humankind into a forced mode of theological existence... kind of how it was during the Dark Ages or certain parts of the world where Islam is controlled by insecure "holy men" that lust for power). Prophecy does not directly affect our personal sense of free will but more the Group Mind; though prophecy can be altered to some degree (provided the group mind focuses on and takes the sort of actions that will circumvent said vision) the current idea is that we merely postpone the inevitable or get a reprieve... ultimately it will happen. Fortunately for us all, most of the acclaimed "fulfilled" prophecies stem from hindsight vs. foresight (though some such "discoveries" could be argued because of symbolism, metaphor and how "dreams" give us information that's not precise).
When we stop tossing the whole idea of foreseeing the future into the same pile and actually educate ourselves as to what the differences are, how they were (are supposed to be) used and thus, where the oanes is placed, we can start understanding better why, for an example, the information in a Card Reading seems to only come close but not dead on... they simply aren't supposed to, never were supposed to.
The more personable oracles like Palmistry, Numerology, Astrology are seen more as "maps" around the soul -- the lessons you are here to learn as well as the assets you come into this life with. Though a sense of the prophetic exists it does not take from us, our freedom of will. Yet, we will still find ourselves confronted by the Karmic obligations we've come here to address be it in the form of lessons to learn, debts to be paid, or natural talents and blessings that are to be shared for the greater good.
Oh! When it comes to "Mediums" we need to understand one important thing; the fact that 90% of the worlds great teachings and cultures held a taboo on this practice and for substantial reasons. However, it was seen as permissible during two key times of the year -- the Spring and Fall equinox times when the veil between the realm of the dead and the living is said to be at its thinnest. Even then, such rites were only to be performed by the village wise one(s) and not simply done in a haphazard manner by an adventurous ego. Even modern-day Occultists like Donald Michael-Kraig and Issac Bonewits warn people of "little nasties" when it comes to this sort of thing -- entities that love to screw with gullible humans or, as I see it, the demons of our own mind coming out to play.
I'm certain Mr. Bell and others here that work with Shut-Eye types can more than attest to the fact that most are about as accurate as a four year old trying to skip a stone across a pond with some kind of consistency. Frankly I can't understand how any of these people ever got a reputation (outside of personal claims & delusion) that they were in fact "channels"; especially when my students in Cold Reading can do a better job just three months in on their studies.
Though I have had a couple of experiences in which I would have to say that I was "taken over by the spirit" I can assure you that the post event affects left me nauseous and quite bewildered. It is not a pleasant experience and I can't personally understand why anyone would want to endure such a thing on a regular basis. But then I don't think the majority of folks that see themselves as a "Medium" do know such experiences.
When it comes to Mediumship I believe that there are at least a couple of different types, the most common claim being the "trance channel" which to me, is the least logical (see the above) and frequently the least accurate. Then you have the "Clairvoyant" types, such as John Edward, who sees images and attempts to explain them. I can understand that one and relate to it quite well in that it is a matter of ancient practice that has a pseudo sense of adaptation within today's mental health industry that comes out of dream interpretation and association testing.
Then you have a form of the Trance Channel but I don't see it as being one in the same in that it is typically manifested in the mode of automatic writing or the use of a planchette/moving wine glass (OUIJA). There are likewise accounts of this particular mode of mediumship working with Pendulums and the original idea being Table Tipping and spirit Rapping (see the Fox Sister story)... the number of rapps or bounces made by the table corresponded to a letter position in the alphabet. [People would write this down and a translation made once the rapping stopped.]
Though I have reasons for "belief" in such things I have even more reason to suspect them. The messages however, tend to fall under the heading of Divination and even that's a loose connection in that so much of what a Medium conveys to the patron is little other than greetings, a memory or two (for validation) and some generic platitudes with the regurgitation of some yesteryear wisdom (most of which is plagiarized from the more obscure authors of theosophy than a more readily identified source).
BTW... most of us buy into a plethora of oracles each day, we just see them in the form of watching the stocks, the political horizon, the weather forecast, etc. Some of us even assuming those roles in life via which we fill the shoes of a parent or mentor just as was planned, sometimes even before our birth, with the gears of society set into play as a way to insure that particular outcome... one for which freedom of will seems far more curtailed than anything found within the esoteric realms.
by aporia » Jul 2nd, '09, 17:22 
