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I'm open minded in that if people who practice homeopathy can prove in a fair, double blind, scientific test that it works I'll believe it

Until then...

kolm wrote:I'm open minded in that if people who practice homeopathy can prove in a fair, double blind, scientific test that it works I'll believe it

Until then...

Oh, please no. Why am I having deja vu? Or is it a nightmare?

nickj wrote:None of these are what is claimed by homeopathy, in which a substance known to produce similar symptoms to those suffered by the dupe is diluted, often to the point where not a single molecule of that substance remains, and then administering it.

Ah, but there lies the secret nick, because water actually has a memory... apparently...

The idea behind it is used in legitimate medicine in what way? In homeopathy, you identify a symptom, find something, anything, which would give a similar symptom, then dilute that thing until noone of it is actually left but it's somehow still there because 'water has memory'.

A vaccine takes a benign variation of a disease which then stimulates the patients immune system so if they catch the full-blown version, they already have a head start on combating it. At no point in it's creation does it have to be rapped a specific amount of times against a hard surface for it to work. It also doesn't work on a mythological priniciple that the less of it is involved, the more powerful it's effect will be. The most 'powerfull' homeopathic remedies involve so many dilutions that it amounts to less than one part of 'good stuff' in more molecules than there are in the entire damn universe!

Farlsborough wrote:Ah, but there lies the secret nick, because water actually has a memory... apparently...

Damn it. I knew I'd missed something. Back to the drawing board with my argument then.

Craig Browning wrote:I just love all the "open minds" on this forums

Craig are you feeling O.k...

that post was very short

MagicalSmithy wrote:

Craig Browning wrote:I just love all the "open minds" on this forums

Craig are you feeling O.k...

that post was very short

... and yet it said so very much

We've waded our analytic and critical way through NLP, Hypnosis and now Homeopathy, does anyone want to sort out Aromatherapy or even the old standby of Feng Shui ?

By definition alternative medicine has either not been proven to work or indeed proven not to work because alternative medicine that has been proven to work is called something

hang on to your hats for this nugget

its called Medicine.

Fancy that

Now stand back for the conspiracy theories about how the medical/pharmicutical community is either hiding the evidence or ignoring it.....

This is because some people will take faith or personal experience over evidence.

Faith is is the denial of observation in order that the belief can be kept

Personal experience is flawed. Just because it worked one time for the patient doesn't mean it's effective as there are too many variables. the condition could have cleared itself up, placebo effect, a different mechanism is in play etc.

Now this means that when a system they "Know" to work is proven not to by a barrage of evidence the faith programme kicks in.

"Well, I know it works because (Insert personal rationalisation here) and the reason the trials showed it to not work is because (insert conspiracy theory here)"

i know makers mark whisky work...

Craig Browning wrote:When someone believes in an idea they should be willing to look at ALL of the data and not be afraid of what they might discover that challenges their personal preferences and understandings. This way they can say that they honestly KNOW something rather than accepting what they've been told to believe.

Thing is Craig, people have done that. There has been repeated meta-analysis (researching all published data of all homeopathic trials and then combining the findings) of all clinical trials of homeopathy. They all, and I mean all, show the exact same thing.

It has the same effect as a placebo.

I like this though:

Many homeopaths also claim they can transmit homeopathic remedies over the internet, in CDs, down the telephone, through a computer, or in a piece of music. Peter Chappell, whose work will feature at a conference organised by the Society of Homeopaths next month, makes dramatic claims about his ability to solve the Aids epidemic using his own homeopathic pills called "PC Aids", and his specially encoded music. "Right now," he says, "Aids in Africa could be significantly ameliorated by a simple tune played on the radio."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2007/ ... ncenews.g2

Enough scientific studies have been done on homeopathy now for it to be safely dismissed. It is quackery. Generally harmless quackery, but not always. One homeopath in Ireland told a cancer sufferer to come off the chemo and rely on natural cures. She then refused to attend the inquest - wise woman. She was savaged by the coroner.
But then it transpired that she had refused to attend an inquest a few years earlier, when another one of her patients had followed her advice.
Unfortunately because of the rules and regulations governing alternative medicine in Ireland (none) she was never prosecuted.
It is for this reason, Craig, that we should keep pointing out that homeopathic practitioners are nothing but scam artists and con men. It has nothing to do with having biases or not being sufficiently open minded.

While I'm in the mood.

Also c___s.

Much of the earlier success of homeopathy relied on the fact that it popped into existence when much of medicine was harmful. If you had the flu, you could drink some magic water, or you could be bled, or given a course of emetics. Generally speaking, homeopathy would allow one to recover naturally without recourse for dangerous, but equally ineffective, measures. It's time has been and gone, though.