talkmagic.co.uk

Rather than divert the original thread even further off course, I've edited out the posts which aren't directly relevant to the poster's question and quoted them here as the question of Intros and how to deal with them is especially relevant:

gunnarkr wrote:Ermmm... how about publishing an introduction before asking for help?

mrgoat wrote:

gunnarkr wrote:Ermmm... how about publishing an introduction before asking for help?

Ermmm, maybe he didn't know it was expected to post an introduction because at NO STAGE in the sign up process is one ASKED to post an introduction.

As I keep mentioning everytime someone rudely bleats at a newcomer.

Mandrake wrote:

Ermmm, maybe he didn't know it was expected to post an introduction because at NO STAGE in the sign up process is one ASKED to post an introduction.

As I keep mentioning everytime someone rudely bleats at a newcomer.

There are a lot of things mentioned at signup which people ignore so there's not much point in adding this suggestion to it. A brief scan of the first page would show the Intros Section and from there on it's easy to see that an Intro of sorts is a welcome thing to do and at least gives an indication of the level of expertise which helps when respondents frame their answers.

A_n_t wrote:

Mandrake wrote:

Ermmm, maybe he didn't know it was expected to post an introduction because at NO STAGE in the sign up process is one ASKED to post an introduction.

As I keep mentioning everytime someone rudely bleats at a newcomer.

There are a lot of things mentioned at signup which people ignore so there's not much point in adding this suggestion to it. A brief scan of the first page would show the Intros Section and from there on it's easy to see that an Intro of sorts is a welcome thing to do and at least gives an indication of the level of expertise which helps when respondents frame their answers.

As mentioned before though, there is a lot of stuff in the sign up process so it is easy to miss, especially if you stumble across the forum from a Google search that picks out a random thread.

I still think that if it is considered courteous to complete an intro then posting should be disallowed in the entire forum until an introduction has been completed. This will;
-Stop newcomers being blasted for not posting one.
-Keep people from signing up just to ask how tricks are done, or at the very least keep away people that just cannot be bothered to wait to become a member.
-This would include a large number of spammers/trolls/flamers.

=)

Mandrake wrote:

A_n_t wrote:I still think that if it is considered courteous to complete an intro then posting should be disallowed in the entire forum until an introduction has been completed. This will;
-Stop newcomers being blasted for not posting one.
-Keep people from signing up just to ask how tricks are done, or at the very least keep away people that just cannot be bothered to wait to become a member.
-This would include a large number of spammers/trolls/flamers.

=)

Unfortunately there isn't an automatic process to allow that - it would need 24/7 Moderator attention and we need to get some sleep from time to time !

Wishmaster wrote:

Mandrake wrote:Unfortunately there isn't an automatic process to allow that - it would need 24/7 Moderator attention and we need to get some sleep from time to time !

That's just pure laziness.

True!!

mrgoat wrote:

Mandrake wrote:

Ermmm, maybe he didn't know it was expected to post an introduction because at NO STAGE in the sign up process is one ASKED to post an introduction.

As I keep mentioning everytime someone rudely bleats at a newcomer.

There are a lot of things mentioned at signup which people ignore so there's not much point in adding this suggestion to it. A brief scan of the first page would show the Intros Section and from there on it's easy to see that an Intro of sorts is a welcome thing to do and at least gives an indication of the level of expertise which helps when respondents frame their answers.

OK. I don't think I've seen anyone make a first post here without SOMEONE snarkily lambasting them for not posting an intro.

In terms of usabililty, you are saying 'well there's an intro section, so when joining, people should read through all the forum titles, realise there is one called Intro and realise they should post there before making any other posts'

Do you see that might not be the most easily guessed course of action?

Also, if you actually asked someone to post an intro they might. If you don't even ask them to, it's unlikely they will, really.

Also, it makes this place seem VERY rude and unwelcoming if some one jumps on your very first post lambasting them for not doing something they were not asked to do.

It just REALLY gets on my wick.

However, I understand you are the Admin and you don't think it's necessary. I am just disagreeing with you and explaining why.

As you might have guessed, this tropic has been mentioned many times and we would certainly encourage courtesy and politeness in any responses. However, this has to be viewed in the light of the original post or question, many newcomers have arrived and seem to demand answers as though we're just here to deal with them - TM is a two way process, contribute as well as draw knowledge. We initially tried various alternatives to the idea of Intros but I think the state we have now is as good as it's going to get. Our first page is clear enough and only has to be read to understand the idea:

Welcome, new arrivals please read this section.

Talkmagic
Welcome to the boards - in here you'll find the necessary rules and regulations plus a few other points to guide you through TalkMagic.co.uk

Introductions
Come and let everyone know a little about yourselves

and the numbers of newcomers who have read this, then posted an Intro first significantly outnumber those who didn't. Also bear in mind that the written word doesn't convey proper inflection or emotion so what may appear to be a curt response may just be unfortunate phrasing, or possibly that the person posting may not have English as their first language, As I mentioned earlier, the main reason for an Intro would be so we don't start offering basic advice to an experienced newcomer and, vice versa, we don't offer advanced ideas to someone who's very new to Magic.

On the one hand, forums where you don't get access until you post an intro have threads full of "Hi, I'm new" type posts and it's just a waste of bandwidth.

On the other hand, it seems a bit cheeky for someone to pop in, ask a direct question about some method or whatever and expect a polite reply. As some people only join to ask one question, this sort of post does beg a bit of sarcasm or a curt pointer to the intro thread. You can't really complain if that's the response you get. If you can't be bothered looking at how the forum works, it's hardly fair to expect help from members.

Maybe I'm old fashioned, but common courtesy would dictate a period of lurking to get a feel for the forum and to decide whether to bother joining, followed by a quick intro and read of the forum rules. The posting of an intro only takes a minute or two, and as Mandrake said, gives current members an idea of whether you're a complete novice or a pro.

Just my 2p worth

Mandrake wrote: Unfortunately there isn't an automatic process to allow that - it would need 24/7 Moderator attention and we need to get some sleep from time to time !

Ok I suppose we can allow sleep!

On a serious note though I did not mean it would necessarily have to happen automatically.

For example, somebody signs up and are informed that they will need to post an introduction in order to post in the rest of the forum, this can take up to 48 hours for their account to be activated after which time they will be able to post in all forums they have access too.

The moderators can then check and allow privaledges/delete spammer accounts by checking the new intro's when they happen to be about.

OR

Upon signing up an automated PM can be sent to the new member welcoming them to the board and requesting that they complete an introduction as well as having links to the "newbie threads", then they have at least been pre-warned. Some idea of what to include in the introduction might be advisable too. I have done similar things for other boards I have moderated and will probably have an old template somewhere if you would like it?

Wishmaster wrote:On the one hand, forums where you don't get access until you post an intro have threads full of "Hi, I'm new" type posts and it's just a waste of bandwidth.

On the other hand, it seems a bit cheeky for someone to pop in, ask a direct question about some method or whatever and expect a polite reply. As some people only join to ask one question, this sort of post does beg a bit of sarcasm or a curt pointer to the intro thread. You can't really complain if that's the response you get. If you can't be bothered looking at how the forum works, it's hardly fair to expect help from members.

Maybe I'm old fashioned, but common courtesy would dictate a period of lurking to get a feel for the forum and to decide whether to bother joining, followed by a quick intro and read of the forum rules. The posting of an intro only takes a minute or two, and as Mandrake said, gives current members an idea of whether you're a complete novice or a pro.

Just my 2p worth

Gotchya!

No one is suggesting the section is binned.

I just thought amending the sign up email to say

"First Things First

Please read the rules (link here), there aren't many and it's important you understand how you are expected to behave here.

BEFORE YOU POST please first visit the Intros section, please tell us a little about yourself, and your interest in magic. Click here to be whisked there straightaway.

Thanks and have fun at Talk Magic."

would work.

Be better than just hoping a first timer might see the forum called Intros and might guess that he is expected to post there

PS Not trying to tell you how to do your job, I know an admin's life is a pain. Just trying to remove the often seen seeming rude welcomes many first posters get.

you could have an auto generated PM, that says "thanks for joining, make sure you post up an intro before anything else...and you may also find these links useful..."

and then include links to the various stickies and popular threads about the same old questions?

IAIN wrote:you could have an auto generated PM, that says "thanks for joining, make sure you post up an intro before anything else...and you may also find these links useful..."

and then include links to the various stickies and popular threads about the same old questions?

You could, but that would involved coding that adding functionality. Although PHPBB has got a good dev community, it would be miles easier to just put that content in the auto-generated email that is already being sent!

I made a hello thread but it got deleted I think

Even though it got deleted do I still count as introducing myself?

dP

mrgoat wrote:You could, but that would involved coding that adding functionality. Although PHPBB has got a good dev community, it would be miles easier to just put that content in the auto-generated email that is already being sent!

But, would they bother reading the email any more than they already do with the forum heading:
Welcome, new arrivals please read this section

And:
Introductions
Come and let everyone know a little about yourselves

Probably not.

i think people are more drawn to reading a PM...it seems more personal...

Danielmp007 wrote:I made a hello thread but it got deleted I think

Even though it got deleted do I still count as introducing myself?

dP

It's still there Daniel.
http://www.talkmagic.co.uk/sutra315520. ... ht=#315520

Hello and welcome hehe!

IAIN wrote:i think people are more drawn to reading a PM...it seems more personal...

That's a good idea. Seconded.

Please bear in mind that, assuming they're available, the facilities for these enhancements don't lie with the Mods or Admins. We operate a stripped down version of phpBB for very good reasons even if it means missing out on some subtleties. Personally, I'd settle for a compulsory spellchecker before any of these ideas !

An Intro isn't mandatory but it's a good way of letting others know who you are and what you're into etc. As has been mentioned, there are times when a first post asking for information seems a bit cheeky, rather like a stranger elbowing into a private conversation and asking questions. Some newcomers manage to combine both an Intro with a question and, as far as I can recall, there have been no sarky responses in return. We certainly welcome newcomers but we don't ask them to join, they choose to join us and as such it seems reasonable to expect a reading and understanding of the rules and regs as much as we expect existing members to be polite and courteous.

As an art, craft, science or a 'faith'(!) magic doesn't need to be confrontational and discussion of our favourite subject doesn't need to be either - we can all get along if we try.

Wishmaster wrote:

mrgoat wrote:You could, but that would involved coding that adding functionality. Although PHPBB has got a good dev community, it would be miles easier to just put that content in the auto-generated email that is already being sent!

But, would they bother reading the email any more than they already do with the forum heading:
Welcome, new arrivals please read this section

And:
Introductions
Come and let everyone know a little about yourselves

Probably not.

I've worked in online marketing for 9 years. My main job is to get people to register for exhibitions or sign up for sites.

I assure you that the registration email is the MOST important email you will ever send someone. That is the point they are the MOST engaged with you they will ever be.

If you ever want someone to take any specific action on your site, it is THAT email you explain this action to them. Honestly, ask any email marketing person. It's very common knowledge.

As they scan the site on their first visit are they gonna scan down all the exciting sounding sections and opt to go for Introductions? I doubt it. I know I wouldn't.

Editing the welcome email would take 10 seconds. It is located here:

language/lang_english/email/user_welcome.tpl

Wishmaster wrote:

IAIN wrote:i think people are more drawn to reading a PM...it seems more personal...

That's a good idea. Seconded.

That's all well and good, but it would require coding.

The email is already being send and would take 10 seconds work to edit.