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Not that I'm a prude or anything you understand, but I don't understand why stand-up comics have to swear so much to get a laugh.

It's not necessary.

Step forward Paul Daniels.

I went to see his one-man-plus-debbie show recently. Absolutely brilliant. The best £12 I've spent in a long while. The man is a stand-up genius. Brilliant comic timing, some really old jokes very well delivered and excellent audience handling. He's quite opinionated and I don't think I'd like to be married to him (apparently he "married Debbie for her money,") but I forgive him all of that because he is so very entertaining.

And not a single rude word. There was one adult allusion to his collapsing wand, but other than that, hilarious, clean, entertainment. Nor did he humiliate anyone.

What was particularly amazing was the fact that his tricks were nothing new (linking rings, professor's nightmare, bill in fruit and of course his famous chop cup) but my word, the delivery! I genuinely didn't see his final loads and his linking rings were splendid. I have no idea how he made the ropes join together and you know what? I don't really care (well, actually I do, but I'll live with it). I was surprised to see him do a sticky hands routine: I didn't see the induction and wasn't aware he did more than use stage props and sleights, so seeing a semi-mentalist/hypnosis act was a surprise.

If anyone is wondering if he's worth going to see, do youself a favour and buy a ticket. I thoroughly commend him to you.

One thing to know, he did ask who the magicians were in the audience. I understand he always does this. I suspect that he deliberately didn't pick them for his participative victims. So if you want to be on stage with him, keep your hands down!

Brilliant. Why can't more stage performers be as respectful?

aporia wrote:he did ask who the magicians were in the audience. I understand he always does this. I suspect that he deliberately didn't pick them for his participative victims. So if you want to be on stage with him, keep your hands down!

He always does this to avoid any issues with those who know the tricks and, at the end of the show, very often name checks any magi in the audience if he knows they'll be there. He alkso tells everyone that if they've enjoyed the show and want to book a magician for their own event then these are the people to talk to right after the show. Very generous attitude. I got picked for electric chairs a couple of years ago but still thoroughly enjoyed it all even though I knew what was happening!

aporia wrote:Brilliant. Why can't more stage performers be as respectful?

Beats me, I guess it's seen as 'cool' or 'edgy' to be foul mouthed and filthy. Cool and edgy are fine but can be done without cusswords and mucky stuff in family type shows. I've seen Pete Firman in cabaret and that's a different kettle of fish. He's very near the edge and the wordage is a bit blue at times but he's skilled, entertaining, very funny and it's obvious he picks his patter to suit the audience. Not for those who are easily shocked, of course.

Just my opinion - as an old and obviously out of date dinosaur... !

Swearing is a tool. It can be used very well by some performers, and as cover for a lack of skill in others.

its also brevity of language...sadowitz said "why use five or six words to describe someone, when one will do?"...

harold pinter - theres a man considered eloquent, dry and witty..he also swore like a trooper, and his poems were filthy...

i suppose its just how you do it, and within what context...

Well, as an old sailor & carney I can tell you point blank that the use of "blue" language on stage is simply WRONG and gets you nowhere fast! If reveals general disrespect for your audience (that is, if you're not catering to bottom feeders) and it likewise reveals the extent of one's own IQ... so to speak.

There is however a time and place in which off-colored verbiage could be appropriate to the client base. Though I doubt most of us would deliberately seek out this sort of market, it does exist and we are fooling ourselves to believe otherwise.

Yes, I'm all for referring to an oozing pile of smelly excrement for what it is in common lingual terms -- SH*T! But you'll not ever hear me using such inferences from the stage ( though I can't say that about my writing or conversation at times).

Showmanship and Audience Management skills have always included two key points; proper diction and the use of appropriate vocabulary. Two elements that are sorely missing in today's world; both, on stage and within society itself.

totally agree with you Craig.

Electric chairs? Do you know of any resources I can look up for this? The only one I found after a quick web trawl was a pamphlet "zapped" by Ricki Dunn from Magic Depot but I have no guarantee of the quality of the publication. Is the method in a proper book?

I couldn't see any gaffs (obviously the whole point) but nor could I see any signal prompt a post-hypnotic reaction (other than some touching afterwards). I presume that the method is perfectly safe (or the spec is a stooge which is very possible) as he didn't ask about health conditions.

Craig Browning wrote:Well, as an old sailor & carney I can tell you point blank that the use of "blue" language on stage is simply WRONG and gets you nowhere fast! If reveals general disrespect for your audience (that is, if you're not catering to bottom feeders) and it likewise reveals the extent of one's own IQ... so to speak.

Not true. Swearing has no correlation on ones IQ at all. Some of my idols swear, and they swear well. Penn and Teller (well, Penn mostly) swear. Derren Brown swears. Stephen Fry swears

Does that mean they have a low IQ? No. It means they have a fine command of language, as these words if used and said properly add real emphasis and passion to what they mean. The one that sticks to me is derren brown's An Evening of Wonders live show which was recorded, where he said "Out loud please, I'm not a f***ing mind reader". Would it work without the profanity? No, not to the same extent

... and I love Gordon Ramsey and George Patton that don't mean squat and if you were better read you would find that the majority of language majors will tell you that use of "four letter words" (as it was known) is proof of one having a poor education. I wish I had a dollar for every time I heard that while growing up.

I fully understand using words "properly" such as "Damn" but I'm also very aware of the kind of people that generally patronize the bad mouthed performers of the world and it's simple a level and quality of water I prefer not to be associated with.... but then I don't have a high level of admiration for the folks you named as your own heroes given their lack of respect towards the bulk of the world community.

Gordon Ramsey is most likely not what he seems on TV. I'm pretty sure he had a ton of producers spouting in his ear peace to act overly angry and foul mouthed. Just to play up to the camera.

George Carlin pretty much cussed like a sailor during his stand up shows from all the way back to the 70's. Which was probably unheard of. The 7-8 words you can't say on TV.

Tho the other thing you have to think about is the type of crowd you are performing for. If you do nothing but the University Circuit then swearing like a sailor and making raunchy jokes usually are OK.

I follow a strict rule of no swearing on stage - but I follow the same rule in life. I find that you can say everything you want to say through a rich and colourful vocabulary.

However when I write I have no problem with swearing, if the character I am writing as would swear. Also, I enjoy several comedians who swear.

However many performers just swear for effect. They swear as punctuation, and I find that plain lazy.

As for Aporia's question, Zapped is the definitive work on the electric chair routine. It's very detailed and will give you all you need to know. Tony.

Swearing is utterly disgusting on stage. Only low class people would dream of doing such a thing.

Magic is supposed to be an art form. It has always been associated with family entertainment and to lower oneself to bad language degrades both the art and the perfomer.
If Derren Brown truly uses filthy language such as that described then he has gone even lower down in my estimation than he already was. As for Penn and Teller I have never approved of their low class "entertainment"

The ART of magic has really gone down the drain. If I were in charge of hiring perfomers and they used one swear word on stage they would be out on their ears.

Randy wrote:Gordon Ramsey is most likely not what he seems on TV. I'm pretty sure he had a ton of producers spouting in his ear peace to act overly angry and foul mouthed. Just to play up to the camera.

George Carlin pretty much cussed like a sailor during his stand up shows from all the way back to the 70's. Which was probably unheard of. The 7-8 words you can't say on TV.

I'm sure that certain things we "scripted" for Gordon but he pretty much runs the show on all of his programs and the F term he is known for is simply a part of his language, it's really not as much intentional as it is habit... one that wasn't easily broken or controlled so it's stuck. But yes, I think it could be exaggerated for the camera for mere shock value and controversy.

Carlin's swearing had a very distinct purpose if you study the era from which he sprang and the attitudes held by his generation but again, we are looking at his target market as well. George had been around a while, long before he moved into the complaining Hippie character he was best noted for being. When Lenny Bruce died George felt the need to fill that void and did so in a very honorable (though controversial) way in which his points of view echoed what the everyday working man thought and/or needed to weigh.

Like I said, I don't support the act of using poor language on stage or even near your performance location for that matter, not if you want to paint a positive image for yourself and gain those contacts that will willingly help you up the ladder. Speaking with a proper vocabulary, using a reasonable facsimile of good grammar and intellect and being respectful of both, yourself and others you interact with... these have always been key factors for success in most any industry but most especially the entertainment world. Where you might find a few limited exceptions to that rule, such as George Carlin, Richard Pryor and Penn Jillette they are the exception, not the rule.

Craig Browning wrote:... and I love Gordon Ramsey and George Patton that don't mean squat

I don't understand, you love two people famous for swearing yet you dislike the four people I named above?

and if you were better read you would find that the majority of language majors will tell you that use of "four letter words" (as it was known) is proof of one having a poor education.

Stephen Fry went to Cambridge and Derren Brown studied law

I don't have a high level of admiration for the folks you named as your own heroes given their lack of respect towards the bulk of the world community.

I've only met Derren Brown, but I can tell you that he's one of the nicest people you'll ever meet. An utterly charming guy who always has time to speak to his fans. I'd hardly call that a lack of respect!

Craig Browning wrote: Where you might find a few limited exceptions to that rule, such as George Carlin, Richard Pryor and Penn Jillette they are the exception, not the rule.

However, earlier on in this thread he wrote:I don't have a high level of admiration for [Penn Jilette]

For so many reasons, I laughed so much I nearly let out a little bit of wee when I saw this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_osQvkeNRM (NSFW or idiots)

Game so completely fecking over