talkmagic.co.uk

Hey there,

I used to come to this forum as a pretty amature card magician. Over the 8 months I've been away, I've practised a lot and can now say I'm not so amature anymore like I used to be, but I'm still an amature.

Now, recently a friend of mine asked me if I could do the warm-up for an audience. He's going to do a stand-up comedy show (or, whatever it was, I'm not too sure).

I have some pretty bad experiences with doing performances. I'm not sure what it is. I do a card trick, and I always find some people in the audience say: "Hey, he does it like that, haha. Sorry magician, I ruined your trick!" and then they'd run off laughing while I practised so hard on doing the trick where no one could see how it was done. Then I just don't feel like doing any trick anymore because I get more discouraged over time. So over time, I started to dislike performing for a big audience. Even in smaller groups of people I'd always find one person asking me: "Hey is this how you do it? Hm? Hm? Hm? Or this? Or, maybe this?" and then I'd be saying no all the time.

I was wondering if you pros there could give me some tips. I can't say no to my friend, because he's a pretty good stand-up comedian and he needs his audience warmed up before he can be really funny.

Mind you, I've purchased several DvDs, including some good tricks of Penguin Magic, so having too little tricks to work with isn't a problem. The real problem really is routine, where as I'm not sure how to link my tricks to each other. I'd be pretty dull saying: "and now I'm going to do another trick. This is the 7th, hurray."

So, any help would be great. Thanks a lot!

Nowah wrote:Hey there,

I used to come to this forum as a pretty amature card magician. Over the 8 months I've been away, I've practised a lot and can now say I'm not so Amateur anymore like I used to be, but I'm still an Amateur.

Now, recently a friend of mine asked me if I could do the warm-up for an audience. He's going to do a stand-up comedy show (or, whatever it was, I'm not too sure).

I have some pretty bad experiences with doing performances. I'm not sure what it is. I do a card trick, and I always find some people in the audience say: "Hey, he does it like that, haha. Sorry magician, I ruined your trick!" and then they'd run off laughing while I practised so hard on doing the trick where no one could see how it was done. Then I just don't feel like doing any trick anymore because I get more discouraged over time. So over time, I started to dislike performing for a big audience. Even in smaller groups of people I'd always find one person asking me: "Hey is this how you do it? Hm? Hm? Hm? Or this? Or, maybe this?" and then I'd be saying no all the time.

I was wondering if you pros there could give me some tips. I can't say no to my friend, because he's a pretty good stand-up comedian and he needs his audience warmed up before he can be really funny.

Mind you, I've purchased several DvDs, including some good tricks of Penguin Magic, so having too little tricks to work with isn't a problem. The real problem really is routine, where as I'm not sure how to link my tricks to each other. I'd be pretty dull saying: "and now I'm going to do another trick. This is the 7th, hurray."

So, any help would be great. Thanks a lot!

right.. where to start.

Firstly,being an Amateur magician is in no way shape or form wrong. One of the greatest Amateur card magians was a bloke called Dai Vernon.( he was a silhouette cutter)

Another well known Amateur card magician was a bloke called Alex Elmsey. ( he was an electrical engineer)

What Im getting at, is that the definition of pro, v am in magic is blurred.

If your finding that you get heckled when your performing magic, the reason your being heckled will have little to do with your abilities with the pasteboards.

No,what does have to be worked on, is your skill as a performer. I think that you need to find a way of getting in fron t of an audience, without the magic. Join a drama group or something, and learn how to play the audience.

Your friend teh stand up, could also do with this experience, because believe me, no good commedian would ever need a warm up act. Indeed, if you go and watch any television programe being filmed, they have a warm up man on set.. who is always a comedian. ( sometimes a magician )

If you need to find a resource of helpfull advice on this, i urge you to buy a copy of the new book on stand up comedy magic, that Ian Keeble has recently released.
Many of teh dealers carry it, and i think that you may well find it the best 25 pounds you have spent. It doesnt have any tricks in it as such, but it does have the tricks of the trade.

For starters, how long have you got to put the act together and how long are you going to have to perform for?

Stick with magic that you know well and are comfortable performing, don't try anything new. As for the hecklers, we all get those from time to time but you'll find that the more confident you come across to the audience, the less they'll be a problem. The best thing that you can do is put an act together, invite a load of friends around and perform to them before you go in front of a live audience.

daleshrimpton wrote:

Nowah wrote:Hey there,

I used to come to this forum as a pretty amature card magician. Over the 8 months I've been away, I've practised a lot and can now say I'm not so Amateur anymore like I used to be, but I'm still an Amateur.

Now, recently a friend of mine asked me if I could do the warm-up for an audience. He's going to do a stand-up comedy show (or, whatever it was, I'm not too sure).

I have some pretty bad experiences with doing performances. I'm not sure what it is. I do a card trick, and I always find some people in the audience say: "Hey, he does it like that, haha. Sorry magician, I ruined your trick!" and then they'd run off laughing while I practised so hard on doing the trick where no one could see how it was done. Then I just don't feel like doing any trick anymore because I get more discouraged over time. So over time, I started to dislike performing for a big audience. Even in smaller groups of people I'd always find one person asking me: "Hey is this how you do it? Hm? Hm? Hm? Or this? Or, maybe this?" and then I'd be saying no all the time.

I was wondering if you pros there could give me some tips. I can't say no to my friend, because he's a pretty good stand-up comedian and he needs his audience warmed up before he can be really funny.

Mind you, I've purchased several DvDs, including some good tricks of Penguin Magic, so having too little tricks to work with isn't a problem. The real problem really is routine, where as I'm not sure how to link my tricks to each other. I'd be pretty dull saying: "and now I'm going to do another trick. This is the 7th, hurray."

So, any help would be great. Thanks a lot!

right.. where to start.

Firstly,being an Amateur magician is in no way shape or form wrong. One of the greatest Amateur card magians was a bloke called Dai Vernon.( he was a silhouette cutter)

Another well known Amateur card magician was a bloke called Alex Elmsey. ( he was an electrical engineer)

What Im getting at, is that the definition of pro, v am in magic is blurred.

If your finding that you get heckled when your performing magic, the reason your being heckled will have little to do with your abilities with the pasteboards.

No,what does have to be worked on, is your skill as a performer. I think that you need to find a way of getting in fron t of an audience, without the magic. Join a drama group or something, and learn how to play the audience.

Your friend teh stand up, could also do with this experience, because believe me, no good commedian would ever need a warm up act. Indeed, if you go and watch any television programe being filmed, they have a warm up man on set.. who is always a comedian. ( sometimes a magician )

If you need to find a resource of helpfull advice on this, i urge you to buy a copy of the new book on stand up comedy magic, that Ian Keeble has recently released.
Many of teh dealers carry it, and i think that you may well find it the best 25 pounds you have spent. It doesnt have any tricks in it as such, but it does have the tricks of the trade.

I'll look into that. Thank you very much!

Lady of Mystery wrote:For starters, how long have you got to put the act together and how long are you going to have to perform for?

Stick with magic that you know well and are comfortable performing, don't try anything new. As for the hecklers, we all get those from time to time but you'll find that the more confident you come across to the audience, the less they'll be a problem. The best thing that you can do is put an act together, invite a load of friends around and perform to them before you go in front of a live audience.

About a month, and my show has to last atleast 45 minutes. I can go longer if I want.

Nowah wrote:About a month, and my show has to last atleast 45 minutes. I can go longer if I want.

Unless you're one of the absolute top entertainers in the world, you won't be able to perform for 45minutes with cards. They'll be bored within 5.

Lenoir wrote:

Nowah wrote:About a month, and my show has to last atleast 45 minutes. I can go longer if I want.

Unless you're one of the absolute top entertainers in the world, you won't be able to perform for 45minutes with cards. They'll be bored within 5.

...if it's all and only about the cards.

Juan Tamariz keeps the audience spellbound with card magic for a couple of hours. But they're watching Juan Tamariz - not the cards.


But I agree, 45 minutes is a long time to fill with a deck of cards if you aren't a stellar performer.

If it's cards or not, 1 month isn't very much time to put together a 45 minute show at all. I recently performed a 15 minute variety show slot and that took over two months of preparation.

I think that to be brutally honest, you have to look at yourself and really ask are you ready to do this show. You've already stated that confidence is a problem, that's something that can be fixed very easily but it does take time.

I wonder if 45 minutes is just going to be too much, perhaps 10 or 15 minutes might be doable but not 45. I'm sorry to sound negative here but I'm just saying it as I see it, I've tried hacking shows together at short notice before and they've never been pretty.

Well, it doesn't exactly has to be 45 minutes. I could do less, aslong as I warm up the audience.

I've got some things prepared, that don't really require cards. Several everyday objects, just incase I'm not pulling through.

So, here's what I plan on doing that day:

I plan on getting started by saying that magic is real, if you wish to believe it. I gently walk down the isle where the people, hopefully, will follow me with their eyes as I gently pull out a toothpick out of my pocket and I say: "Who of you here has never seen magic before?"
If someone raises their hands, I'll go to that person and invite him to the front. Then I'll ask the person to check the toothpick and I'll say that magic can basically be done with any object, aslong as I wish it to be done. Of course, I'll say this in a funny way so they don't take it seriously.
After he's inspected it, I take it back and I'll say: "Watch, aslong as you believe, it'll happen," and make the toothpick disappear (Thanks to Cris Angel), and make it reappear again and have him check out the toothpick. I'll say: "Alright, keep that as a reminder. Please," and have him go back to his seat. By now I hope I'll be in for about 5 minutes.
Afterwards I'll say that there are a lot of magicians in this world, and I name a few, but then I say that my favorites, which would be Ricky Jay and Lee Asher, have inspired me to become a cardmagician. I then perform Lee Asher's Thunderbird to produce 4 aces and then say: "I love cardmagic" as I hope everyone's stunned by the performance.
By now I'm 7 minutes in.
I ask someone to the front and I perform the Daily Show (Penguin Magic) on someone. After hopefully being astonished, I have her/him sit back down.
Hopefully I'm in about 10 minutes. Then I take out the whole pack of cards and I'll say that cardmagic is very interesting seeing I'm working with suites and numbers, and that there's a big variety in it. I can basically produce any card I want, as many times as I want and I'll walk around in the audience to have someone choose a card. I stop at a girl and ask if she's single. If she says no, I'll say: "Alright, wrong one," and I move to another person. Within a second I'll say: "Ok, that was a joke," and have her take a card. If she is, I'll say: "Great. Take one. Write down your phonenumber too," which should give a good laugh. I then perform an ambitious cardtrick and say that it doesn't really matter how I shuffle, I will always find their card back.
I then produce the card several times with several people, like at most 4. Each time I produce a card I'll say: "And, it doesn't matter how I shuffle," by doing a different, more complicated shuffle and I'll be in about 20-25 minutes.
I then move back up to the table and say that all I've been doing now is have them pick a card, I find their card and that's it, and I'll say for jokes: "That's getting a bit dull, not? Why not make it a bit more dificult?"
I'll then ask the audience: "Alright, I am looking for people who wear glasses," as one or two people will raise their hands. I simply choose four and have them come to the table. I then have all of them select a card, put them back in the pack, produce all of the 4 after a series of shuffles. I hope I'll be in for about 30 minutes now.
I then lay the pack down and choose someone from the audience. I'll say: "So far I haven't been very fair, have I? I've been using my magic (laughs) on you and I'm sure you are thinking: that magician, hmpf! Alright. You have a pack of cards in front of you. Pick one out," and after they put it back, shuffled it, I'm going to guess which card is theirs, without touching the pack. I should be in 35 minutes now.
As a last trick, I think I'll be doing one where I have a bottle which is sealed, and I find their card, which ended up in the bottle which was sealed. I forgot the name, but it is sold by Penguin Magic. By then I should be around 40 minutes.

What do you guys think?

Nowah wrote:So, here's what I plan on doing that day:

Have you ever performed anything on a stage?

The one big problem that I see (and again I'm really sorry if I'm comming across negative) is the same problem that you're always going to have when you perform cards for a big audience, cards are just not visible. 90% of the time most of your audience isn't going to be able to see what you're doing. And while this is ok for a couple of minutes in a show, for 45 minutes I can just see the audience loosing interest. The other thing that is nagging at me is the fact that alot of this is going to be performed close up for one or two members of the audience at a time, you're not engaging with your audience as a whole, which is something that you really need to do if you want to keep their attention. The routine sounds nice enough as a close up or intimate parlour routine but I'm just worrying how it's going to come across as a stage act.

I have no idea where to start, but I will be brutally honest and say, I would pass on this one mate.

You are not prepared, do not have enough time to practise and reherse, and you are not experienced enough for a 45 minute slot!

You are there to be a warm up act, to entertain the crowd before the main show! I was bored just reading your act.

You show your lack of professionalism by stating that

'' He's going to do a stand-up comedy show (or, whatever it was, I'm not too sure). ''

You do not even know what act you are supporting!


You stated earlier that when some one heckles you or asks you questions on how you did an effect you dislike it and shy away from that effect, Doing a 45 minute stunt, with the material you have prepared and the way you are approaching it, you are 100% definately going to be heckled and be subject to comments and remarks, good or bad!

I agree with DD, it sounds like a close up act on stage, which will lose peoples interest!

Again, I'm not being negative, just straight with you. You do not want to start your magic career off to a c**k up, as it will effect your confidence and the way you approach magic in the future!

taffy wrote:I have no idea where to start, but I will be brutally honest and say, I would pass on this one mate.

You are not prepared, do not have enough time to practise and reherse, and you are not experienced enough for a 45 minute slot!

You are there to be a warm up act, to entertain the crowd before the main show! I was bored just reading your act.

You show your lack of professionalism by stating that

'' He's going to do a stand-up comedy show (or, whatever it was, I'm not too sure). ''

You do not even know what act you are supporting!


You stated earlier that when some one heckles you or asks you questions on how you did an effect you dislike it and shy away from that effect, Doing a 45 minute stunt, with the material you have prepared and the way you are approaching it, you are 100% definately going to be heckled and be subject to comments and remarks, good or bad!

I agree with DD, it sounds like a close up act on stage, which will lose peoples interest!

Again, I'm not being negative, just straight with you. You do not want to start your magic career off to a c**k up, as it will effect your confidence and the way you approach magic in the future!

Well, to be honest I'm not really sure how big his audience will be seeing he asked me and I simply said: "Sure."

Here's how our conversation went:

Him: "Hey, Noah, want to do me a favor?"
Me: "Sure thing. What is it?"
Him: "Yeah, I'm doing a show and I need a warm-up act."
Me: "A show? What kind?"
Him: "A stand-up comedy-like thing. You'll see what it is."
Me: "Uhm. Sure thing. How long does it have to be?"
Him: "Oh, around 45 minutes I guess?"
Me: "Sure, I guess."
Him: "It's like next month, but I'll let you in on the details later, alright?"
Me: "Mkay."

So then I decided to come here and ask you guys for some tips. I'm not really sure what he'll be doing, seeing he said it's a 'comedy-like-thing' and I'm not entirely sure how many people there will be. But hey, if a good friend is in need of help, I tend to give it to them.

But, of course, you are all right. I'll practise hard and make sure I'll make the best of it.

Thanks for the tips so far.

Well, not wanting to sound mean but you've said that you've had some bad performance experiences and it also sounds like you'll little idea what you're letting yourself in for so I'd agree with the other who suggest that you pass up the gig. What's in it for you, aside from another bad performance experience? If you can answer that then I'm wrong.
Cheers and best of luck,
T.

Please please please don't use the horrible 'are you single' and 'write down your phone numnber' lines, they're not funny and make you look like a slime.

I think that the boys are right on this one, you don't know how big your audience is and you've not got an act prepared, with a month to go I just think that it's going to be too big a job to pull off. Even an experienced magician would struggle with that one.

why not suggest you'll do some table hopping, small 5-10 minute slots per table instead?