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by **Peter Marucci** » Oct 28th, '09, 13:38

Remember, if they don't want to watch magic, DON'T FORCE THEM TO!

That rejection will happen more often than you think, at first, and it has nothing to do with you as a person. So don't take it personally.

So, until you can "read" the tables, you WILL be rejected occasionally. Some people don't like magic on religious grounds, some on moral grounds, and some just plain don't like it!

Don't force anyone; thank them, wish them a good meal, and leave gracefully, for the next table.

by **greedoniz** » Oct 28th, '09, 14:03

I certainly agree with the notion of "If they dont want to see magic dont't force them" but I personally dont see anything wrong with chucking in an effect as part of your introduction.
I have in the past had spectators say to me that if they hadn't seen the introduction effect I chuck in as I turn up to the table they would have turned me away as they never like magic shows on tv but now realise that is is very different live.

by **IAIN** » Oct 28th, '09, 14:07

and your fly is usually open... :wink:

by **Lady of Mystery** » Oct 28th, '09, 14:25

damianjennings wrote:
Lady of Mystery wrote:When I approach a table, I like to introduce myself first and start up a little friendly chit chat before asking them if they're interested in seeing some magic. I don't really like just going up and doing a trick, I think it's only polite to ask first. But then again that's just me and for other people a different way of doing things might well be better.

As stated earlier, do you think they are qualified to know if they want to see something?

I used to work in sales many years ago. We were taught never to ask a closed question. ie one someone could say YES or NO to.

Do you really that you're qualified to know how they want to spend their time better than they do? There could be 101 reasons why magic could be totally inappropriate, there could be out for a quiet meal after attending a funeral for instance (that one's happened to me before) and it's only fair and right to give them the option of saying 'no thanks'. We're entertainers, not sales people.

by **greedoniz** » Oct 28th, '09, 14:42

At one of the TM London Meets we invaded a table of people sitting in the pub and did lots of magic which fell kind of flat.
It turned out they were there supporting one of their friends whose close relative had died that day.

Ooops. At least it cheered them up a little.

by **IAIN** » Oct 28th, '09, 14:44

glad i didnt do a living and dead test....

by **A J Irving** » Oct 28th, '09, 14:56

When I worked in retail we were once told that you should never asked a closed question. Later that morning I approached a customer and asked him: 'how can I help you?'. His response was simply: 'you can't'. :oops:

So, I scampered away feeling like the biggest a**e ever and I've never bothered with that open question rubbish since.

To put it simply, it doesn't matter how you ask someone, if they don't want to see what you have to offer, they will work out a way of letting you know. It's really your decision about how small you'd like to feel when you do get turned down.

by **moodini** » Oct 28th, '09, 16:30

mark lewis wrote:Moodini old chap. The reason they are not rude to you is because you are in boring Canada where the populace are polite wimps.

If you had gone up to a table in the UK and said that dreadful insincere North American expression that I detest namely, "How are you doing tonight?" the response would have been "Mind your own business"

I grind my teeth when entertainers in this frostbitten excuse of a country come out and say "how are you all doing tonight?" when everyone knows that you don't give a stuff how they are doing.

As for that question "where are you from?" that is just as bad. I do not approve of being friendly to people in that insincere Canadian manner.

I remember once going to the UK with Paul Pacific. I thought it would be a good idea to work on Yarmouth market while I was there and Paul reluctantly agreed to help out. I don't suppose he did half an hour's work all day. He was demonstrating the svengali deck and was getting nowhere with his false Canadian friendliness. He has a dreadful habit of saying "what's your name" to strangers and even in poxy Canada it is a little too strong. In Britain it is considered an invasion of privacy. He also goes around touching people and his excuse is that he is Italian and is supposed to act like that. Since he has never been to Italy in his life he is as Italian as my left fingernail.

I knew when writing this that it would not meet your approval Mr. Lewis....that thougth crossed my mind when writing it.

Our city is about a 30 minute drive from a huge British army base (where they train in Canada) and I have done numerous shows for the soldiers, staff, and families (all of whch are british) and never once have they responded any differntly to my questions than the Canadians I perform for...I have crossed paths with thousands of people from the UK at the base and in my shows and they seem to be open....maybe it is your overall attitude/personality that doesn't allow this to work for you. I don't mean that in a rude way....just that it may not suit your style so therefore doesn't work for you....however it suits me and has kept me booked up by numerous canadain and UK based groups each year.

Bottom line however, is it works for me and all the venues I perform in. You must find something/approach that feels natural and you are confident with...the casual conversation works for me and I relax which makes it easier for me to get my audience to relax.

To each their own....shoot for something that is comfortable and feels natural...no right or wrong it it is working for you!

by **damianjennings** » Oct 28th, '09, 18:08

Lady of Mystery wrote:Do you really that you're qualified to know how they want to spend their time better than they do?

Yes.

People never know what they want. This is why market research is so silly. You load a question one way or another and you get the response you want.

Lady of Mystery wrote:We're entertainers, not sales people.

Everyone is a sales person. Everyone sells something. You could have cheered up the funeral wake. You could have done anniversary waltz on the couple on the date. etc etc.

I am not saying that one should ever force magic upon a table. I am saying that you should not give them a direct, closed question where the answer could be no.

After all, there are so many dreadful playingcard tie, hippity hop rabbit, "hold out your hand, no the clean one" magicians that many people have never seen magic as good as I, and I am sure you, do.

So when you ask someone if they want to see some magic, they may be getting flashbacks about some horrible cheesy naff magician they saw ruin their friend's wedding.

But really, everyone sells something.

by **Matthius88** » Oct 28th, '09, 18:19

I dont know how useful this will be, as I have never performed magic in any kind of proffesional manner but a company I used to work for had a swanky xmas do with a pro once.

His approach was just to come up and say "Hello my name is (alcohol has blurred away his name), I am here to entertain you guys tonight. Would it be ok if I joined you for a few minutes?"
Personally I thought this was probably the best way to approach a group of people sat at a table, having their own conversation. Walking straight up and showing some magic is in a way making them stop what they were doing to pay attention, whereas coming up and asking to join them is more like you want to join in with them (but obviously the attention will still be on you now).

Thats my opinion anyway. I think it just eases everybody in a little, makes them comfortable with you. Thats how I saw it from a spectator's perspective.

by **Jing** » Oct 28th, '09, 22:59

ok,
be professional...
introduce myself...
ask if they want to see something...
don't mention a knife... (who carries a knife!?)
don't touch anyone...
don't start with sponge rabbits... (sorry mark, but really? - boing boing!)
and maybe do something flashy just to show a taste of magic, in my intro... (that bit was my advice actually!)

Cheers for your input, and debate

Thanks for your advice Matthius, I see your new around TM - hope it's going well for you.

by **Mark Waddington** » Oct 28th, '09, 23:24

I obviously have no idea what im talking about then...

by **Robbie** » Oct 28th, '09, 23:54

I would instantly dislike anyone who touched me on the shoulder (or anywhere else), whether they introduced themselves first or not. Some people are touchy-feely, others aren't. And they always seem to end up next to each other...

Wandering up to a table and grabbing stuff off it without warning -- even if it is the restaurant's cutlery -- doesn't strike me as a very congenial idea either. When a person sits at a table, the cutlery becomes psychologically "theirs". If you wouldn't snatch handbags, don't snatch forks.

by **mark lewis** » Oct 29th, '09, 00:08

I see that young Jon Allen makes that same mistake too. He puts his hand on a person's shoulder. NEVER touch a member of your audience. I like Eugene Burger's work but I disagree with his philosophy that you should touch people. It is an invasion of privacy.

Stage pickpockets have to touch people but Waddington and Allen are not pickpockets. Don't do it.

As for moodini I must inform him that he is performing for Brits in Canada who have been tainted by the rather boring locals. British visitors are so confused by Canadian politeness that they start being polite too. Of course when they get back to Blighty they become as obnoxious as the rest of the people on this very forum.

Being an obnoxious Brit is part of our glorious heritage. Besides the Brits like Canadian accents and will forgive you on the grounds that "forgive them father for they know not what they do"

by **Matthius88** » Oct 29th, '09, 00:49

Oh and also I agree with the no-touching thing to some extent. I wouldn't really like it myself but some magicians or just people in general can pull it off. If its a natural movement, something part of your own personality then it might be ok I suppose. Depends how much of a cuddly character you are

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