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Even if you are a "cuddly" character you shouldn't do it right off the bat. If you must indulge in this silly habit then give the people some time to get used to you. Under no circumstances do it when you first approach a table.

Better still don't do it at all. There are many people who don't like it. Don't risk it.

Jing wrote:don't start with sponge rabbits... (sorry mark, but really? - boing boing!)

Oh well ner to you then, I nearly always start with sponge bunnies and they always go down really well

I don't think that us Brits are obnoxious (well some are but most aren't). I always start with a little friendly chit chat and ask people about themselves and always get really positive replys.

I think the main thing is to be yourself and do what you feel comfortable doing.

Jing wrote:don't start with sponge rabbits... (sorry mark, but really? - boing boing!)

Why not? Its a cute effect, I have a couple of different story lines for it, I can make it completely child friendly, or I can make its slightly more risque. Its a universal effect in that you can divert the routine in any direction you need to. Also, I hate opening with cards... the vast majority of people dont want to be innundated with cards. This is why my first set list consists of the sponge rabbits, a ring effect, and only then do I do a card trick.

It works for me, and im constantly busy with gigs, so I must be doing something right here...

Nothing wrong with Sponge Rabbits and it is a classic effect which should not be underestimated. I do prefer the sponge balls however since it is more visual and when I do it I get them screaming with balls flying off into people's soup. I well remember when I did the trick at a posh Dublin event and the balls went flying into the American Ambassador's soup. I bet she remembers me better than any other magician she has ever seen. I wouldn't have got that effect with the rabbits.

Waddington is indeed doing something right. However he is also doing something wrong. Putting his hand on people's shoulders indeed. Don't do it. You don't want to end up with the same bad habits of Jon Allen.

mark lewis wrote:Nothing wrong with Sponge Rabbits and it is a classic effect which should not be underestimated.

There is everything wrong with it. It makes magicians make crass purile jokes about rabbits HAVING SEX!!111 OH OH OH how risque! How crazy! How sub-Benny Hill.

Sponge Balls is AWESOME. I often open with it. My routine is very quick and only uses two balls (well, three, but they don't know about the third).

But the rabbits I will leave for people that think playing card ties are the height of cool.

mark lewis wrote:Waddington is indeed doing something right. However he is also doing something wrong. Putting his hand on people's shoulders indeed. Don't do it. You don't want to end up with the same bad habits of Jon Allen.

Maybe I need to think about the hand on shoulder thing a bit, however I believe it helps me set up for my touchy feely approach to performing, getting spectators to hold certain things in certain ways, misdirection etc. Every performer is different at the end of the day, you can only go out there and find what works for you. Thankyou, Mr Lewis for your opinions with this!



However, the sponge bunnies comments being made have annoyed me slightly. I know what works for me, and sponge bunnies works well for me. The ammount of referrals I get because of the sponge rabbits is unbelievable, and whenever I go to my residency, my regulars always ask for the rabbits. The reactions are fantastic, screams of excitement can be heard throughout the venue when I work this routine, which all reinforces to your client that you are doing a great job and giving them exactly what they want from you.



It often makes me wonder how many of the people who "poo poo" things are actually working Magicians? By working Magicians I mean doing gigs regularly, 2 or 3 times a week minimum, who work their material constantly, who have spent several years perfecting their routines as a result of hundreds, thousands of real world performances.

Mark

Mark Waddington wrote:However, the sponge bunnies comments being made have annoyed me slightly. I know what works for me, and sponge bunnies works well for me. The ammount of referrals I get because of the sponge rabbits is unbelievable, and whenever I go to my residency, my regulars always ask for the rabbits. The reactions are fantastic, screams of excitement can be heard throughout the venue when I work this routine, which all reinforces to your client that you are doing a great job and giving them exactly what they want from you.

It often makes me wonder how many of the people who "poo poo" things are actually working Magicians? By working Magicians I mean doing gigs regularly, 2 or 3 times a week minimum, who work their material constantly, who have spent several years perfecting their routines as a result of hundreds, thousands of real world performances.

Mark

Why does how much one works a week have any bearing on a subjective opinion?

I think it's a kid's trick that some magicians make a bit 'rude' for alleged comedy. I don't like it. But I don't like Benny Hill either. And I don't own a tie with playing cards on it.

I would defend to the DEATH your right to do it though. But don't get so uptight because I disagree with your opinion on an effect. The whole point of a discussion is to get different people's opinions.

You tell 'em Wadders!

I personally dont like the sponge bunnies however this is a completely personal thing. I have seen many times the reaction this gets from the public and it is always one of delight, surprise and astonishment and this is what counts.
I do also agree that it can be a bit Benny Hill risque end of the pier but once again if the audience like it then that's what matters. Discounting an effect due to some sort of magicians snobbery is madness I tell you MADNESS!

I still prefer normal sponges though but as this whole thread has exposed is that once again what works for one magician wont work for another. If you feel comfortable and dont get adverse reactions put your hand on the specs shoulder, if it works for you barging in there ala Dave Williamson and taking over then use it and if using sponge bunnies bonking works then that too is all good.

What state would magic be in if there was hardned rules on how to behave or perform?

I also used the Sponge Rabbits in my Magic Circle audition, and passed with flying colours, without having to wear a playing card tie either...

I used to avoid the sponge bunnies like the proverbial but, when my daughter celebrated her 6th birthday, she asked me to do some magic at her party.

Now this was a real problem because I don't really have any kids-focused magic - although I did have the sponge bunnies from a previous purchase (back of the drawer special). I borrowed the Bunny-Love DVD from my local society and totally fell in love with it. It's not risque and, contrary to popular opinion, it's not kid-centric. OK, you're not going to see Simon Drake performing it anytime soon but I can honestly say that during the performance at the party the biggest cheers of delight were from the parents.

I think it's a great opener (or a closer in some smaller close up settings) - and whilst I can see the scope for making it risque, I have never felt the need to (and, if I'm honest, the thought never even crossed my mind before reading this thread!). If it's not appropriate for the venue/audience I'm in, I simply don't do it.

Cliche or Classic? That's a question that is almost impossible to answer.

As for the 'end of the pier' style humour, I absolutely adore it!! Performers such Mel Mellers make me hanker for the days of good old Saturday night entertainment with Larry Grayson (and Slack Alice!) on BBC1. I absolutely love that performance style and when you watch his DVDs you can feel the warmth coming back from the audience. It's part of our culture and heritage and whatever you might think about Benny Hill, I'd argue that his humour was a lot less offensive than some of the material that goes out on a similar time-slot nowadays (Really - was The Benny Hill show any more exploitative that watching contestants sing and dance half naked on X-Factor or Strictly Come Dancing?).

Carry-On Films, End-of-Pier Postcards, Double-Entendres - I love them all but, as with anything, if it's not right for you.... don't do it!


Sean

Interesting as much of this discussion is, it should be borne in mind that there are percentages involved in almost everything that's being said. Frankly there are very few absolutes in this kind of business.

For what it's worth, here's how I feel.

What's the point in performing for people who don't want to watch? Who gets any fun out of that? Only a very, very few people ever say "No" anyway (about 1 in a hundred or so) so why worry? Ask them.

The non-touchers are mostly right. The vast majority of people will find it invasive until they know who you are and what you're doing. After you've introduced yourself, and established yourself as a welcome intruder, then touching arms, hands is OK.

Asking names is also fine, once you're established. Generally, I only ask someone's name if I'm doing something for them, specifically.

Once you've established your presence, the opening effect just needs to be a good one. Beyond that, it doesn't matter what it is except for one qualification.

It should be something for the whole table, I think. My own preference is for my Chop Cup routine. My reasoning is that if you do something for just one person, the others might just go back to talking or get otherwise distracted. My experience is that if they are included, they watch, and then when you move on to do something for an individual they are already invested in watching.

In the end, the short answer to "How do I approach a table, and what opener should I use?" is simply to do whatever works for you. It's sad but true that this is generally the best answer to any question about really working. Most of us can't really tell what will work for others, we can only tell what works for us. In which case, everybody's answer on this thread is correct!

Good luck with that then!

damianjennings wrote:I would defend to the DEATH your right to do it though. But don't get so uptight because I disagree with your opinion on an effect. The whole point of a discussion is to get different people's opinions.

You would die to allow someone you've never met to do a trick with sponge bunnies? Come on, you wouldn't really...

:p

greedoniz wrote: Discounting an effect due to some sort of magicians snobbery is madness I tell you MADNESS!

It's not snobbery, it's judgement. I think it's a very bad, naff, cheesy, appaling trick.

But - as I said - I would defend to the DEATH anyone's right to enjoy performing it. Heck, lots of people like doing d'lites and fancy cuts too.

What is popular is very rarely what is good. Look at the top music sold, the top movies, the top TV shows.

ITV gets more viewers than channel 4. It is more popular. I prefer to think of my act as channel 4 rather than Ant And Dec's Saturday Night Laff Fest.

Doesn't mean people won't pay good money to watch someone do an ITV magic show. I am delighted people can make money doing it.

Subjectively, I don't think it is a good trick. It goes on too long. It is too repetitious. It has really naff gags in it.

My sponge routine happens in about 2 minutes. The magic happens VERY quickly, and ends in their hands. And has no nob gags. This, TO ME, is perfect.

As said, diff'rent strokes.

Mark Waddington wrote:I also used the Sponge Rabbits in my Magic Circle audition, and passed with flying colours, without having to wear a playing card tie either...

I didn't and I passed with flying colours.

And I didn't do it in my Magic Castle audition either and I passed that too!

Just goes to show that some people like some things and other people like other things.

Doesn't it?

Damian. I do not approve of "sex" as you put it. And in actual fact I have no idea what it is. I must say, however, that it sounds most improper.

I do agree that the amount of shows you do has no bearing on your performing ability and this is mentioned by Fitkee in the foreword to his book. There are many reasons a person may be working regularly but talent is not necessarily one of them.

However the sponge bunnies is an excellent trick performed by master bar entertainer Heba Haba Al for many years. As for the Risque thing it doesn't have to be done that way. I am a notorious prude and it is well known that I cannot bear anything in that line. The bunnies, however can be done in a tasteful manner if the presentation is crafted carefully. I don't know how Waddington presents it but providing he is doing it in a tasteful manner without disgraceful innuendo then leave the poor boy alone.

Tell him to take his hands off other people's shoulders though. His half hearted defence of such disgraceful invasions of privacy are not very convincing I am afraid.