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Did anybody watch this programme on channel 4? A massive waste of a Thursday night hour if you ask me!

Well, if that sort of treatment is truly representative of the experiences of ethnic minorities in Britain then it might be worth it, but I think that the initial assumption that it is only white people who are racist was perhaps a little outdated; the only malicious racist comments that I am aware of hearing have been made by a couple of Asians I know.

That said, I think it is possible that some people do have a sense of denial about the whole thing; I don't see discrimination going on, but surely there would not be so many complaints about it if it did not occur.

Didn't see this programme, care to give a short summary?

I'd like to think I'm not at all racist, but I find that hard to believe... I think what makes these things so hard is the way many groups polarise the two options - either you're a stupid, horrible, bigotted, fascist, racist thuggo w***er, or you have purged any tinge of prejudice from your system, probably with the aid of yoga and wheatgrass extract. Very difficult for people who simply want to be nice (and not racist), but are sensible enough to acknowledge that they may be capable of inheriting or absorbing the odd assumption or stereotype and are happy to try to correct it.

It's a spectrum, people.

30 volunteers were split according to eye colour; blue an non-blue. The Blue eyes were treated badly, bullied and generally picked on to "teach them a lesson about being racist".

The treatment seemed to me to be apt for the origins of the experiment in 1950s America, but I'm not sure that it was at all realistic for modern Britain. However, I am white middle class and acknowledge that I probably haven't got any real clue about this sort of thing.

The bit that got me was that the woman running it (who was white with blue eyes) was adamant that all white people, no matter what their background were pre-programmed to be racist and that there is not a single one in the world who is not. By contrast, she assumed that every black person was a permanent victim of racism. By the end, any white person who suggested that they or someone else was not racist was basically shot down and told they knew nothing, even the woman who was born in and raised in a predominantly black society and had therefore experienced living as part of a minority.

I am happy to accept that I have pre-conceived ideas about all sorts of things, probably some to do with race, but that is part of being human; your brain tries to fill all the gaps by making stuff up. However, I do wonder why it is that if I do that about someone white and change my mind once I know the facts that this is normal, whereas if I do it with regard to someone of a different race to me then it's racism.

To my eyes, though, the woman running the show was the most "racist" of the lot as she appeared to pigeon-hole every single member of the study based entirely on skin colour; every white person was demonised, every black person was a poor victim and the Asians were more or less ignored for the whole thing. Maybe that was the real point of the exercise.

I hate clown balloonists...
Especially those with a red wig.

I didn't watch the program, but I think we're all racist to a degree. I'm not saying we're a nation of facists, but every single one of us is at least prejudice to some degree, however minor. It's human nature and racial stereotypes.

I used to work with a genuinely nice guy who was friendly with everyone and was a pretty popular guy. (He is white). He had friends from a wide variety of cultures and races, including black friends. When his son told him he was seeing a black girl, he did a Jekyll and Hyde and it caused no end of stress and heartache in his family. To be honest, I think a lot of people would react in a similar way, and not just with black people but with any other race. It's not right, but it doesn't stop it from happening every day.

birds of a feather ...

I don't think that it's racism so much, more some sort of idea that people have that they need to preserve who they are, their identity. Being angry at your child seeing someone of a different race is a part of this and it's not only whites that are like this, most cultures are. It's not something that I really understand, but then I come from a fairly multicultural family.

nickj wrote:The bit that got me was that the woman running it (who was white with blue eyes) was adamant that all white people, no matter what their background were pre-programmed to be racist and that there is not a single one in the world who is not. By contrast, she assumed that every black person was a permanent victim of racism.

I have a similar problem with a writers' reference book I own, a compilation of archetypal character types. The highly feminist author makes her basic classification by sex. One of her assumptions -- which she says, at one point, in so many words -- is that no male can ever know what it's like to be a victim of injustice.

What's bitterly funny is that the ardent feminist ended up putting together the most sex-prejudiced book I've seen. Her insistence on classifying characters by sex means that, according to her, no woman could ever have a scientific mind, or want to work for straightforward reasons like making money. Similarly, no man can ever be gentle or free-spirited or nurturing.

Similarly, it's the really vocal anti-racist campaigners, like the presenter of the "blue eyes" experiment, who end up classifying the entire human species on the basis of skin colour above all else.

Humans have innate prejudices, inherited from our most primitive animal ancestors. One of these is an inclination toward those who are "like myself" and against those who are "unlike myself" -- not just in race, but in culture, language, intellect, wealth, and so on. They're only inclinations, and with a little application of intelligence we can look past them and see individuals as individuals. But that's not to say the inclinations won't still be there at the bottom of the psyche.

I think stereotyping and pidgeonholing is an instinctive survival thing in many respects. Animals in the wild don't have the time to meet, greet and befriend every tiger, just to give the benefit of the doubt to the ones that won't eat them.

They learn to be wary of all of them.

Or, more to the point with thinking animals, they're taught to be wary of them.

We learn by experience that fire, falls and pointy things are hurty, but our experience with other people and the way we decide to be trusting or distrusting in certain social situations is - to a great degree - taught, or learned by observing the reactions of people that we already trust.

At a very basic level, I think we're instinctively programmed to be wary about anything or anyone that's significantly different to ourselves, but the downside of being intelligent sentient beings is that we're astute enough to notivce all sorts of differences that don't matter a damn - and make up a whole load that don't actually exist.

We label and demonise whole groups of people just because we're no longer bunnies living by our wits, aren't in constant fear for our lives, and therefore have nothing better to do than play games of them and us.

I'm in a cynical mood today.

Pete

Lady of Mystery wrote:I don't think that it's racism so much, more some sort of idea that people have that they need to preserve who they are, their identity. Being angry at your child seeing someone of a different race is a part of this and it's not only whites that are like this, most cultures are. It's not something that I really understand, but then I come from a fairly multicultural family.

Whilst I agree with your comments, I think it's a fine line between wanting to preserve your identity and having a racist attitude towards some/all other races. (I'm referring specifically to relationships here). The way I see it, multicultural couples are becoming more and more numerous as the years go by, especially in major cities like London. This is the inevitable result of large numbers of nationalities living and working together.

I think there must be very few "pure breeds" left, anyway. Speaking of which, how high up do you go when climbing the family tree, in search of your true identity? If I wanted to get pedantic about it, I could say that every human being on this planet originated from Africa. When push comes to shove, the racism issue is moot. The bottom line is this: we're all the same species and we all have the same needs and desires. In the grand scheme of things, planet Earth is not a large place and we all share the same home, so why some people have to make the race thing an issue, is beyond me.

I can put my hand on heart and say with 100% honesty that I would not have a problem with my daughter having a relationship with any race you care to mention. As long as she is treated well and she is happy, that is all that matters and that is all that should matter.

In my experience racism has little or nothing to do with race or colour.

It's a manifestation of some psychological malady of the mind. These same people would choose any nonconformist victim to vent their spleen if there weren't any immigrants handy.

Ginger nuts have a lot to be thankful for.

Replicant wrote:Whilst I agree with your comments, I think it's a fine line between wanting to preserve your identity and having a racist attitude towards some/all other races. (I'm referring specifically to relationships here). The way I see it, multicultural couples are becoming more and more numerous as the years go by, especially in major cities like London. This is the inevitable result of large numbers of nationalities living and working together.

I can put my hand on heart and say with 100% honesty that I would not have a problem with my daughter having a relationship with any race you care to mention. As long as she is treated well and she is happy, that is all that matters and that is all that should matter.

Oh totally and I wasn't saying that the attitude is right! I think that things now a days a far better than 30 or so years ago.

My grand parents on my mum's side were both Algerian and I know that my dad's family had a really hard time accepting mum into their family. Things even now are still quite prickly but they get on ok. They used to get all sorts of abuse when they were out, which I couldn't even imagine happening today.

I really don't think that it's a big problem any more. I'm very pale skinned considering and even if I've been in the sun I'm no darker than an Italian or Spanish girl so people don't tend to realise my background but my brothers are much darker than me and one is Muslim but even so they've very rarely ever come across any sort of racism. Both are seeing white girls at the moment and have no problems at all with the families.

People make a fuss about racism but similar to sexism, it undoubtably was a major problem 40,50 or 60 years ago but I think that we're in a much more tolerant society today and racism is very much an exception to the norm.

As far as I'm concerned, the outside doesn't matter very much at all. It's what's in the mind and heart which is important.
However one answer might be:

Melting Pot by Blue Mink


Take a pinch of white man
Wrap it up in black skin
Add a touch of blue blood
And a little bitty-bit of red indian boy

Mm, curly latin kinkies
Mixed with yellow Chinkees
If you lump it all together
Well, you've got a recipe for a get-along scene
Oh, what a beautiful dream
If it could only come true
You know, you know

What we need is a great big melting pot
Big enough to take the world and all it's got
Keep it stirring for a hundred years or more
And turn out coffee-coloured people by the score
Yeah, Lord

Rabbis and the Friars
Bishops and the Gurus
You got the Beatles or the Sun God - it's true
Well, it really doesn't matter
What religion you choose
No no no - ooh

Mick and Lady Faithfull
Lord and Mrs. Graceful
You know the living could be tasteful
Oh, we should all get together in a lovin' machine
I'd better call up the Queen
It's only fair that she knows
You know, you know

What we need is a great big melting pot
Big enough to take the world and all it's got
Keep it stirring for a hundred years or more
And turn out coffee-coloured people by the score

Yeah, what we need
What we need is a great big melting pot
Big enough to take the world and all it's got
Keep it stirring for a hundred years or more
And turn out coffee-coloured people by the score

C'mon, all join in the chorus !!

Mandrake wrote:As far as I'm concerned, the outside doesn't matter very much at all. It's what's in the mind and heart which is important.
However one answer might be:

Melting Pot by Blue Mink


Take a pinch of white man
Wrap it up in black skin
Add a touch of blue blood
And a little bitty-bit of red indian boy

Mm, curly latin kinkies
Mixed with yellow Chinkees
If you lump it all together
Well, you've got a recipe for a get-along scene
Oh, what a beautiful dream
If it could only come true
You know, you know

What we need is a great big melting pot
Big enough to take the world and all it's got
Keep it stirring for a hundred years or more
And turn out coffee-coloured people by the score
Yeah, Lord

Rabbis and the Friars
Bishops and the Gurus
You got the Beatles or the Sun God - it's true
Well, it really doesn't matter
What religion you choose
No no no - ooh

Mick and Lady Faithfull
Lord and Mrs. Graceful
You know the living could be tasteful
Oh, we should all get together in a lovin' machine
I'd better call up the Queen
It's only fair that she knows
You know, you know

What we need is a great big melting pot
Big enough to take the world and all it's got
Keep it stirring for a hundred years or more
And turn out coffee-coloured people by the score

Yeah, what we need
What we need is a great big melting pot
Big enough to take the world and all it's got
Keep it stirring for a hundred years or more
And turn out coffee-coloured people by the score

C'mon, all join in the chorus !!

Great. Now I have that scene from I'm Alan Partridge where he sings that song stuck in my head. I believe it's the scene where he's wearing some very short shorts that the inner lining has fallen out of.