talkmagic.co.uk

OK, I won't deny that I'm completely fascinated by this, but there is something ... um ... weird about it.

I just think you'd be hard pressed not to get a reaction like, "Why are you doing that?"

Not "How are you doing that?"...

"WHY are you doing that?"

To put it another way...

Person 1: What would you do if you had REAL MAGICAL POWERS and could do ANYTHING IN THE ENTIRE WORLD?
Person 2: Anything?
Person 1: Yes... ANYTHING!
Person 2: *thinks hard for several minutes*
Person 1: So come on... what would you do?
Person 2: I'd... I'd put a put a ring on my leg, and sort of move it a little bit.
Person 1: How much would you move it? Would you move it a lot?
Person 2: No. I think I'd just move it a little bit.
Person 1: *wide eyed with excitement* You could move it really fast, and make it spin round and stuff! And then make it explode in a big cloud of gas---
Person 2: No. I think I'd just move it a little bit. And I'd get this nut and bolt and make the bolt spin round sort of slowly.
Person 1: *shrugs* Well, at least you know what you want. What shall we do tonight? Shall we go to the disco?
Person 2: I'm not really into going out. I think I'll stay in and do some paperwork.
Person 1: *gets up and walks off*

why bend a spoon?

Because it's there to be bent!

My view is that bending a spoon is a lot more dramatic than moving a ring an inch or so without touching it. It just seems terribly un-dramatic to move an object a short way really slowly.

Anyway, I'm not trying to offer a conclusing argument, just an idea, a viewpoint. Maybe the right person can make it engaging in practice. I'm not saying they can't. It just seems a bit too ... specific in some way.

uri is one of the most famous mentalists ever...all for bending spoons with "the power of his mind"...

making a deck of cards suddenly cut itself
a spoon bend
a ring link with another
a bolt and nut move

all pretty small fry in the scheme of these big powers...but, maybe, its because they are almost humdrum, maybe...thats why people may believe them more?

I'm with Iain on this one, but I understand the concern.

It's like everything. So you can bend metal, move objects, see the future... It's the story/rational that matters. I read somewhere today*1* that someone said the effect was worth twice the method. It's true - who cares if the method uses magnets or not? As long as it does not appear obvious to the spectators, it's all good. And by that I mean, even if it *does not* use magnets, it should not appear to. The demo I saw looked like a magnet on a thread. How many people know which metals hold magnetic properties etc? I'd suggest not many. So you're going to get people incorrectly saying, "Oh, it's obviously a magnet." And you simply cannot respond by saying, "It's not - HONESTLY!"

The answer? I don't know. I just feel, intuitively, that this is a bit like The Raven - it looks incredible in a controlled demo but just how practical it will be remains to be seen. But not by me 'cos I don't move stuff with the old noggin.

*1* EDIT: It was Tony Corinda.

This is getting a "buzz" just like Tarantula did. And a few days after that was released people were lining up to say it wasn't that good, broke all the time and so on. I'm gonna wait for a few level-headed reviews...

The Devil's Tailor wrote:OK, I won't deny that I'm completely fascinated by this, but there is something ... um ... weird about it.

I just think you'd be hard pressed not to get a reaction like, "Why are you doing that?"

Not "How are you doing that?"...

"WHY are you doing that?"

To put it another way...

Person 1: What would you do if you had REAL MAGICAL POWERS and could do ANYTHING IN THE ENTIRE WORLD?
Person 2: Anything?
Person 1: Yes... ANYTHING!
Person 2: *thinks hard for several minutes*
Person 1: So come on... what would you do?
Person 2: I'd... I'd put a put a ring on my leg, and sort of move it a little bit.
Person 1: How much would you move it? Would you move it a lot?
Person 2: No. I think I'd just move it a little bit.
Person 1: *wide eyed with excitement* You could move it really fast, and make it spin round and stuff! And then make it explode in a big cloud of gas---
Person 2: No. I think I'd just move it a little bit. And I'd get this nut and bolt and make the bolt spin round sort of slowly.
Person 1: *shrugs* Well, at least you know what you want. What shall we do tonight? Shall we go to the disco?
Person 2: I'm not really into going out. I think I'll stay in and do some paperwork.
Person 1: *gets up and walks off*

I thought we were in the business to make people believe what is not possible? Not question the valuable tools at hand to deliver powerful magic.

Obviously, if your attitude and approach are beyond your means, then this effect is not for you. There is nothing worse then witnessing a Magician perform something he is not comfortable with. That is called "A train wreck". This concept, and idea can be introduced in many ways to keep the continuity of your routine in check. I have a million different ideas at how I can introduce this concept. Pascal De Clermont has released a book or two on mentalism that would bode well for incorporating a trick such as this into a routine.

If you feel you can't find away to influence someone to believe what you want? Then maybe Magic is not the field for you. And that is okay. . . There is a shortage of clerks at my local grocery store.

If you insist that you are magic material, then you learn how to tell a story to build around the effect using proper patter. Slow down this rush to just jump into an effect for applause.

We should all know as Magicians that the true art of magic is not necessarily what the spectator sees; but what they don't see. Magic is an art that is never fully expressed to the spectator.

It is a shadowed art, dark and mysterious, peppered with moments of enlightenment and wonderment. It wasn't more then 150 years ago we were executed for practicing less then what we know now. So rather then criticize the effect; use the history of magic, and the knowledge given to you from the generations. The beauty of magic is that there is no boundaries, no limitations.

You may say screw it all! And only then will I agree that you are onto something.
- Ted Talon

TedTalon wrote:I thought we were in the business to make people believe what is not possible? Not question the valuable tools at hand to deliver powerful magic.

I agree with the first sentence in that part of your post. I don't agree with the second - we should always question the tools. It remains to be seen if this new one is at all practical, let alone useful.

I didn't like the tone of the rest of your post, though.

TedTalon wrote:If you feel you can't find away to influence someone to believe what you want? Then maybe Magic is not the field for you. And that is okay. . . There is a shortage of clerks at my local grocery store.
- Ted Talon

This is the most ridiculously over the top response I have ever seen on a forum.

OK, so I make one general suggestion that one specific effect may lack drama? So that means I must GIVE UP MAGIC COMPLETELY AND GET A JOB IN SAINSBURYS!

You're right, TedTalon. Clearly, if I question just ONE EFFECT, I should not be performing magic.

*hangs head in shame and applies for job at local market*

I think an evolutionary psychologist might say that in general human beings feel irriated and bored by objects that move slowly or don't move far, and excited by objects that move fast or that move some distance. If that were not the case, the human race would never have survived this long.

Picture the scene: early man stood outside a cave staring at a worm crawling across a leaf, while a sabertooth gets ready for a game of snooker in the man's trousers.

It's just a thought.

It's bedtime now in Darenland. I have a CUPS fix arriving in the morning, (not to mention a job interview at my local grocery store - thanks for the reference, MeanTed) and I need to be fresh.

(On this CUPS note, a quick Trainspotting reference for you:
"OH MY GOD! THAT'S BETTER THAN ANY *CUPS* IN THE WORLD!!!!")

I only skimmed this thread, but I'd like to share my thoughts regarding the question of the triviality and speed of magic effects.

The power in magic effects such as Uri's metal bending and other PK and mindreading stunts is the implication they give. Though the bare bones of the Geller effect is that a piece of metal bends-- a rightly trivial effect-- the implications he attached to the effect is what truly gives it power. The 'bigger' effect is that the physical, natural world can be manipulated through the power of the mind and concentration. The presentation is what makes the proper execution of the trick so effective.

This isn't limited to mental effects either. We have all gotten reactions along the lines of, "Man, I wouldn't want to play cards against you" or "Hey, you want to come deal for me when I play poker with the guys next week?" after doing card magic devoid of a gambling theme. Usually the effects we do are rather trivial (I think); we make cards switch places or arbitrarily jump to the top of the deck. Despite this, the basic, pointless effects suggest that we can do things beyond what we are presenting as entertainment.

Speed, then, is not necessarily something we have to think of in objective terms. I know you would argue that modern audiences are more accustomed to quick effects, but I've had experiences where people accepted very slow effects and were thoroughly baffled and entertained at the end. Studying various OOTW routines along with Paul Brook's Alchemical Tools really opened the door to slow effects for me. I learned from both that quality and precision is more relevant to the success of a performance than elements like speed.

Anyways, I'm personally not very interested in the routine in question.

sleightlycrazy wrote:Speed, then, is not necessarily something we have to think of in objective terms. I know you would argue that modern audiences are more accustomed to quick effects, but I've had experiences where people accepted very slow effects and were thoroughly baffled and entertained at the end.

I quite agree.

OUT OF THIS WORLD, which I perform often, is the perfect example. It's slow and it gets an amazing effect. Though admittedly it's a sort of "social" effect rather than a "visual" effect.

I wasn't saying that every single effect must but fast. I do think however that there is a possibility that a person may find a VISUAL effect tedious if it occurs very slow.

I think a moving nut on a bolt would make a wonderful necklace! I wonder if that can be done? I guess we have to wait for a review.

Off the top of my head, a presentational frame that might work is a pseudo-sentimental story of the development of TK in a man who, when somehow trapped in a/n (car crashed in the middle of the woods, asylum etc) focused on something he desperately wanted to live/escape for. Slowly, the bolts enclosing him disengaged.

This can be tied in with some effect of determining something the spectator would focus on to find the will to live.

I would find it interesting.

We have secured a number of units of these and can confirm that the release date is early January but the first batch is depleting really fast.

Having seen the effect at first hand it has to be said that this really IS the closest thing to appearing to perform real magic, and nope it doesn't use a large magnet so won't end up sticking your leg or other limbs to metal tables or other peoples cheap jewellery

Although the item is a bit expensive we have decided to stock and sell them at as low a price as possible without conflicting with the fixed MRRP

For those of you still in the dark there is a new demo clip (with nice dance music) to be found here www.youtube.com/kernowmagic and the item is ready for pre-orders on our website.