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I know exactly what you mean Jim... It should really look as nothing has happened. But it can be easier for some to do the clip version, and it's not hard to move it to original holding anyway. But 99 times out of a 100 it would go unnoticed anyway, I'd think. With the 2 card monte routine i use anyway, if i did the top change in the clipping way then it's quickly covered by giving the card back to them anyway, so it doesn't become an issue. But essentially, you are right... It should look like nothing has happened.

Hi Doey. I understand where you're coming from, and your arguement that in most cases the switched in card is only held for a few seconds, is a valid one. However i believe it is still better to have the card in the same position.

Vernon, in his later years, devoted alot of time to looking back over his work and trying to improve it. One of his philosophy's was to eliminate moves. There is also a quote in a book (i cant remember which book, Expert Card Technique comes to mind though), that goes something like - all unessesary movements should be elimenated.

There are really only three options with this move - 1 clip the new card in exactly the same manner - 2 clip it with a diffirent grip - or 3 clip it first with a diffirent grip, then move it to the same grip as the first card. Number 3 has unessesary movements - the point of these movements is to acomplish number 1, which can be achieved without them. They are therefor unessesary.

Number 2 conflicts with the reality that should be duplicated, as per my last post. You mentioned that in 99 cases out of 100 the discrepancy will probably not be noticed, which is probably true, but what about that one person who will ?, what happens if your routine demands that the switched in card be held at the fingertips for longer than the usual few seconds ? The move is possible with no discrepencies at all so why take chances with something, which in my opinion, is an inferior technique.

For all these reasons i think number one is the better technique, however as usual this is only my opinion. jim

I have been doing the top change for about 47 years or so. It is one of the few sleights I can honestly say I have never been caught out at. I learned it from the Royal Road to Card Magic and that book said you have to switch fingers. So I did it that way and have never had a problem. Then a few years ago I heard that you were supposed to do it with the same grip and that was the original handling but it hadn't really been described.
I haven't changed what I have always done.

I can assure you that the laymen doesn't give a toss where your fingers are. They plain don't notice. So do it the easiest way for yourself.

mark lewis wrote:I have been doing the top change for about 47 years or so. It is one of the few sleights I can honestly say I have never been caught out at. I learned it from the Royal Road to Card Magic and that book said you have to switch fingers. So I did it that way and have never had a problem. Then a few years ago I heard that you were supposed to do it with the same grip and that was the original handling but it hadn't really been described.
I haven't changed what I have always done.

I can assure you that the laymen doesn't give a toss where your fingers are. They plain don't notice. So do it the easiest way for yourself.

Your arguement here is as Doeys, valid, and i fully understand what you are both saying. Yes in most cases it wont be noticed, and in some they wont even care. But i dont think that is any reason to use poor technique.

Magicians like Ammar, David Berglas, Michael Vincent, and now Derren Brown - esteemed by the public and other magicians alike, all have one thing in common - their painstaking attention to detail - nothing is left to chance. All these little details, while seemingly unimportant, are what combine to make the stunning routines these men are performing.

I believe attention to detail to be of the utmost importance for true deception. To perform a move incorrectly because it is easier, or because no one will notice (perhaps) is bad practice in my eyes.

I realise i am making alot of fuss over something which many may see as trivial, but i feel these little details are very important. I realise this is also just my opinion, and is by no means right or wrong, and i certainly dont have your years of experience behind me. Anyway, as you've probably guessed, i still think the card should be clipped with the same fingers and in the same manner jim