talkmagic.co.uk

Grrr. Been looking forward to getting an iPhone in February, and called Orange today in anticipation to work out what upgrades they're doing.

Turns out, none. They call it an "upgrade" simply because you keep your old number and presumably contract number, but that's where it ends. You still have to pay the full monthly tariff, you don't get any additional perks like extra texts or minutes and depending on whatever tariff you select, you pay exactly the same for the iPhone as everyone else.

That's not an "upgrade", that's called "taking out a new contract and keeping your old number". My however many years of loyal custom and I get the same deal as a new customer with no sweeteners whatsoever. And all because they know people will still go ahead with it because of the handset...

Hmph.

Have you tried the classic "Well XYZ company have offered me this deal so I think I'll go with them instead, I thought it would be worth giving you a try because I have been with you so long."

Worth finding out what you can get elsewhere but they are unlikely to call you a liar, they might just call your bluff. Either way you're in no worse a position than now!

The thing to do is simply to ask the chap in the shop "How much can you do with the price?" There's a certain amount of "elasticity" in the price of a mobile phone.

The thing i found when buying my iphone is that the companies have absoloutley no leverage over what they can offer you. They have set contracts and thats that. Saying that its worth every penny that you pay for it. Absoloutley brilliant phones. Now that i have my 3GS i doubt i could function with anything different, it really does make that much of a difference.

Frankly, I still use my lovely old Nokia 3410, and will talk at length about its virtues to anyone who doesn't nervously back away. Maybe if there was an app to emulate the 3410's superb, easy to use software...

I'm not sure how much it'd work on an iPhone contract, but quite often if you phone up and say "I'd like to cancel please" they try and do a deal for you*

*I'm in no way responsible if anybody tries this and actually cancels their contract when all they wanted was a fiver off their contract a month :p

I had exactly the same discussion with Vodafone a few days ago. My 7-8 years of loyalty counted for nothing because they were not prepared to budge an inch on the price of the 3GS or the monthly tariff price. I asked for my PAC so I could go to O2 and ended up on the phone for thirty minutes while the guy tried to convince me to stay with Vodafone. He kept talking himself into a dead end and didn't seem to realise that their "offer" to me was virtually identical to O2's. He was dangling a stick in front of me but there was not a carrot in sight, which was pointless. So I went with O2 just to prove a point. And I'm very happy with both the network and the 3GS, which is fantastic.

All I was asking Vodafone for was to meet me halfway on the price of the handset (about £75 on the tariff I was interested in). Given my eight year history with them, I think this is more than reasonable. They just wouldn't do it so I got my PAC and moved to O2. For the sake of a measly £75 (which does not even amount to a drop in the ocean of Vodafone's profits), they have lost a contract with me that would have been worth over £900 to them over two years. Go figure.

Huh, well that's good to know. I guess they figure most people will be prepared to pay the full price, pretty pointless when people have no problems switching network

This chap kept insisting that I wasn't being loyal by threatening to move network. Er, so what about the last seven years? What was that, then? He said Vodafone were offering me unlimited texts, whereas O2 were offering "only 500". As far as I'm concerned, 500 is unlimited because I will not use 500 in the space of a month. So there goes that argument.

Basically, no network is willing to move an inch on the iPhone. Even if you're an existing customer looking to upgrade, you get the same offer as a new customer. Here's part of my conversation with Vodafone...

Me: So why can't you meet me halfway on the price of the 3GS?

Vodafone: Because Apple have strict rules that we cannot break. The phone costs £150 and has to be paid in full by the customer. It's Apple's rules, not ours.

Me: But that doesn't explain why you're not prepared to pay half. Apple want their £150 - they don't care where it comes from, as long as they get their money. If you wanted to, you could pay half. But you choose not to. So don't blame Apple.

Vodafone: Er, but it costs £150. It has to be paid in full. And you're not being loyal by threatening to move to O2.

Me: Er, you're not making much sense. It's not up to me to be blindly loyal to you; it's up to you to give me an incentive to stay with you. And you're offering me nothing. So why should I stay?

Vodafone: Unlimited texts. O2 only offer you 500.

Me: Oh, I give up. Give me my PAC, please.

Replicant wrote:Vodafone: Because Apple have strict rules that we cannot break. The phone costs £150 and has to be paid in full by the customer. It's Apple's rules, not ours.

(Disclaimer - I work for a call centre on behalf of a phone company)

Technically speaking, the £150 isn't the phone cost... complete cost at least.
Usually when someone has a phone contract with handset for X amount of months, up to half of the contract cost goes towards the cost of the phone itself. Consumers get the phone "Free" or "Reduced in cost" because they're really paying for it during the contract itself.
The £150 in this case isn't an Apple rule, it's purely the excess of the phone's cost after taking into account what would be subsidised during the life of the contract based on what is offered to you. The longer or more expensive the contract, the higher the subsidy, and the lower initial cost.

DenmarkKilo wrote:

Replicant wrote:Vodafone: Because Apple have strict rules that we cannot break. The phone costs £150 and has to be paid in full by the customer. It's Apple's rules, not ours.

(Disclaimer - I work for a call centre on behalf of a phone company)

Technically speaking, the £150 isn't the phone cost... complete cost at least.
Usually when someone has a phone contract with handset for X amount of months, up to half of the contract cost goes towards the cost of the phone itself. Consumers get the phone "Free" or "Reduced in cost" because they're really paying for it during the contract itself.
The £150 in this case isn't an Apple rule, it's purely the excess of the phone's cost after taking into account what would be subsidised during the life of the contract based on what is offered to you. The longer or more expensive the contract, the higher the subsidy, and the lower initial cost.

So does that mean when my iPhone 3g contract ends in september I won;t get the newest iPhone for free if i renew my contract?

Beardy wrote:So does that mean when my iPhone 3g contract ends in september I won;t get the newest iPhone for free if i renew my contract?

It depends on the provider as to how forgiving they are in terms of what they can offer you. But generally from what I have seen, no, not unless you end up spending more on the contract than most people do (as in line rental).

Tip - When upgrading, you will almost certainly be getting a better deal when you get through to "Disconnections" (Saves) than "Upgrades". From my side, it's exactly the same department that I put people through to, but they end up being a bit more lenient than on an "Upgrade".

It's a business contract through my work, where we have, I believe, 5 phones on the contract. Due to that meaning we all spend more, does that make a difference? We generally end up paying between £70-80 a month each?

Beardy wrote:It's a business contract through my work, where we have, I believe, 5 phones on the contract. Due to that meaning we all spend more, does that make a difference? We generally end up paying between £70-80 a month each?

Bearing in mind I deal just with consumers as opposed to business (whom have their own departments, rules, contract stipulations and other fairytale stuff that people calling up about issues wanting compensation due to loss of business despite only having consumer contracts therefore get next to nothing can only dream about), £75 line rental would certainly get you the top-end iPhone for no charge, but this may change based on the actual final contract you would end up with and which iPhone specifically you want.
Quite frankly, I'd rather see if I could save money on the TCO (Total Cost of Ownership) by making the payment towards the phone cost and getting a contract with fewer minutes, but that's just me...

Business specifically? No idea.

I don;t pay the contract, i get it paid - i just care about the phone now