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I'm currently routining a "Three Shell's Game" type "Cups and Balls" routine. I think that's the best way to describe it even though their so closely linked already. Just to clarify, the basic idea is to use one ball instead of the traditional three to jump from cup to cup after various moves and shuffles of the cups. It's going to be part of a larger Cups and Balls routine that I'm working on. I know its not original and it's probably been done a thousand times before but I'm still keen to have it as part of my routine.

What I need from you guys are any comments on good teaching material that would suit this kind of routine. I'd appreciate stuff that is very specific to a gambling type set up as oppossed to the great heap of Cups and Balls material that is out there. Cheers,

Fish

I strongly believe that this is the original use for the cups. Looking at early engravings, it is reasonably clear to me that it was a gambling stunt, rather than a feet of magic.

I would avoid making the routine too long though, as once you have seen the ball hop from cup to cup a couple of times, the rest is just reapeating the same thing.

I know this is not quite what you were asking, but if you're putting together a cups and balls routine, then Michael Ammar's classic takes some beating. There should be moves in here which will help you in any case. It is described very well in Ammar's book which is reviewed in the link below. The book is superb regardless.

http://www.talkmagic.co.uk/ftopic3279.php

also consider amars complete cups and balls.
http://www.emagictricks.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=2217 £25.

also no2 avalable.

I thought I had reviewed this book, but I can't seem to find it anywhere. It was quite a while ago so perhaps it was one of the things lost in the Great Crash of '03.

Good one MagicDiscoMan, hadn't seen that before. The book has the advantage in having a LOT of other stuff in it, but the video obviously has the visual element if you're that way inclined. As was mentioned in the review, if you but the book, you don't have to listen to Ammar's titter.

The very best explanation of the three shell game that I can think of is definitely from Gary Ouellette. This may help you in your quest

You can see a description at
http://www.murphysmagicsupplies.com/cat ... hells.html

It is not on emagictricks.co.uk but they can definitely get it for you if you email or phone them

the best i have seen is on the Karl Norman dvd i have reviewed here...

http://www.talkmagic.co.uk/ftopic3259.php&highlight=

Thanks for all the tips guys but i think only one person got the point of my post (cheers, Support). I'm not asking for stuff about the Cups and Balls in general, there's far too much of it. I'm actually asking for very specific material about using the Cups and Balls in a gambling set up.

As most of you are aware, and as daleshrimpton pointed out, the Cups and Balls is the oldest "trick" known and yes, indeed, it was used as a betcha originally. That is exactly what I am trying to get back to.

To be honest it's not that hard to figure out moves and the like for such a routine but I have found in the past that it is ALWAYS useful to source other perspectoves on the same problem and perhaps get a different angle on it. That was really my primary aim here. My secondary aim was to get as many moves/switches/loads/etc under my belt as possible for my own sake soas to build up a library, so to speak, of possibilities (another point that I have found helps when routining a certain effect e.g. The Ambitious Card).

Again, thank you for all the interest anyway.

The problem is that the three shell game largely uses entirely different sleights from cups and balls.

As I see it, with cups, there are only a couple of things you'd want to do. First, put a ball under a cup when it isn't actually there. Second, make a ball appear under a cup you have just shown as empty.

Other classic three shell game moves aren't going to work (from my limited knowledge of the subject).

Have you considered using a chop set (not a single chop cup)? That could offer some advantages to this type of routine.

It's the lack of variety of moves which is going to make creating a routine difficult. As has been mentioned, you put the ball in a cup and turn it over and it vanishes (or you put it under a face down cup) a couple of times and that's it. All I can suggest is a production load for the end. Have the spectator miss the ball a few times, then produce a load of coins to show how much money a conman could make if he did this for real.

It's just a thought but, You may find that a very good ( if expensive) way of performing the betcha part of your routine, is to use 3 chop cups, rather than the standard cups, or combo set.Then work in a one ahead move so all the cups are loaded all the time.

Good idea, Dale. I once thought of doing a routine using three chop cups, but the price put me off.

It would work well for this sort of effect and would have no real moves to learn.

thanks for the ideas guys. i've considered the 3 chop cup idea but Part-Timer said, the price is a bit off putting.

Having watched it last night at the M.K secret day, i notice that Tommy Wonders goblet routine uses shell and pea moves , rather than the standard cups and ball loading methods.
You should study his act for inspiration.

Brilliant cheers, I'll look into it.