talkmagic.co.uk

I note that I do not have the best spelling and grammar, or even near it.
However, I have noticed an extreme lack of quality in grammar in online communication these days. Not as much on this site as in other places, but still always present in many places.

One of the most disturbing and obvious of these problems is the lack of apostrophes in sentences. I find this to be even more common amongst younger generations, such as mine, and I am not sure how this came about.

I have always found it very much instinctive to put apostrophes where they belong, and find it actually takes a fair bit of concentration for me to type "don't" without an apostrophe. The second issue is typing the pronoun I. Many people these days are now making these I's lowercase.

I suppose one reason that I at least feel less likely to do these sorts of things than many my age is because I have often typed things up as a hobby. For a long time now I can recall typing stories as a child, and so perhaps it became easier for me to grasp the written word.

However I am curious how the habit must have began to not use apostrophes, or type I's lowercase. For I suppose it must have been a habit formed problem, because they must have been taught originally to use these more correctly.

Of course these are only two of a numerous amount of examples.

What other types of grammatical and spelling errors do you find to be frighteningly common these days?

Also, where do these problems begin?

I feel this must be stopped before it becomes fine and common place to see this sort of writing in novels and textbooks.



-Ben

The lack of apostrophes is rather blatant in novels by Cormac McCarthy. As well as a lack of quotation marks. It's really annoying to read which is a shame because I really enjoy stories such as: The Road and No Country for Old Men.

Oh well. I don't see it invading books but if it does; I don't see that there is any stopping it.

JakeThePerformer wrote:One of the most disturbing and obvious of these problems is the lack of apostrophes in sentences. I find this to be even more common amongst younger generations, such as mine, and I am not sure how this came about.

You ended that last sentence with a preposition.

a lot of writing these days is done via text messaging or word processors. both will autocapitalise (is this a real word?), and add in apostrophes and correct other little errors. so people get used to having such jobs done for them. however on internet forums, you don't really get the same predictive/word butler functions.....

as you can see my laziness extends to not being able to stretch my pinky to the shift button to start my sentences with capital letters.....

Lack of even basic grammer drives me up the walls. Sentences begin on a capital, I is upper case, names are upper case, apostrophies add meaning to the words they apply to. It is no excuse that a predictive text function is not doing the work for you. Do it yourself.

Clear communication is very important, and it is just laziness not to bother - laziness and lack of respect for those who have to read the rubbish you produce when you cannot be bothered to reread and correct before posting.

When someone consistently ignores common curtesies when writing I tend to ignore and skip their posts. After all, if they don't care about their posts, why should I?

I have a friend who texts without bothering with capitals, punction marks, etc, and who abreviates lots of the words. Every second text he sends needs a phonecall to find out what he meant. I only put up with it because he is a close friend. I don't need to put up with it online. Tony.

I used to share your opinion until I read a blog post just over a year ago. But he made a very good argument so now I share the opinion of the post's author, Stephen Fry, one of today's most loved writers, so I shall do little more than quote him. But please don't just read the quote below, this is just the crux, please do read the whole thing

Words, it seems belong to other people, anyone who expresses themselves with originality, delight and verbal freshness is more likely to be mocked, distrusted or disliked than welcomed. The free and happy use of words appears to be considered elitist or pretentious. Sadly, desperately sadly, the only people who seem to bother with language in public today bother with it in quite the wrong way. They write letters to broadcasters and newspapers in which they are rude and haughty about other people’s usage and in which they show off their own superior ‘knowledge’ of how language should be. I hate that, and I particularly hate the fact that so many of these pedants assume that I’m on their side. When asked to join in a “let’s persuade this supermarket chain to get rid of their ‘five items or less’ sign” I never join in. Yes, I am aware of the technical distinction between ‘less’ and ‘fewer’, and between ‘uninterested’ and ‘disinterested’ and ‘infer’ and ‘imply’, but none of these are of importance to me. ‘None of these are of importance,’ I wrote there, you’ll notice – the old pedantic me would have insisted on “none of them is of importance”. Well I’m glad to say I’ve outgrown that silly approach to language. Oscar Wilde, and there have been few greater and more complete lords of language in the past thousand years, once included with a manuscript he was delivering to his publishers a compliment slip in which he had scribbled the injunction: “I’ll leave you to tidy up the woulds and shoulds, wills and shalls, thats and whiches &c.” Which gives us all encouragement to feel less guilty, don’t you think?

tnx 4 ur hlp it wud hv taken 4evr without it

Part of an email I received.

I think this developed when everyone had pay as you go mobiles and people would trim their text messages to avoid paying an extra 10p to send a message.

Putting it in to written communication though is just absurd... I mean email...

I did also receive a text message from my younger sister once that I could not even begin to decipher, I asked a friend and we just looked at each other and laughed. I wish I had kept it now as it was hilarious, not just because of the lack of grammar and spelling but the amount of slang contained made it read like a foreign language!

The one I hate the most..........?

When people use the word 'of' instead of 'have'. For example...

"I could of gone the cinema today but decided to stay home"

Now, I realise why some people have fallen into this trap, mistaking the abbreviation "'ve" (Would've, etc..) but, for goodness sake, using the word 'of' in that context just doesn't make any grammatical sense!!!

You'd be suprised how often it happens!


Sean

I'll even use capitals for this post, just to play nice.....

If you look back at language over the years, it's changed quite a lot. We don't use capitals anymore where once it was quite standard practise (edit: I don't mean as mentioned in previous posts. The english language, used to have a lot more capital letters in it's written form. I hope this makes more sense now....). Similarly, we use many common words and phrases now, which originally will have started life out as terrible slang.

I think text speak is one gargantuan step too far, however, I don't see the point in getting so angry at minor discrepancies, which will eventually just get swallowed up by the course of language evolution? If it's clear what someone is trying to say (i.e. you don't have to re-read it countless times in different ways), then surely it's good enough, in particular on an internet forum?

I've started manually typing my capital letters automatically now as a result of this thread, so I think I've been defeated

You've really made a rod for your own back with this thread Jake. I think people will be watching you like a hawk now for any grammatical errors.

When i say people, i mean me

Anyways (oh no!), round these parts there's one saying that annoys the bejebus out of me....

"Where's it to?"

I feel sick just typing it. I may need a sick bucket. Where's it to?

I tend to see more apostrophes added to places they have no business being, then absent from their rightful homes.

And this is evident even in shops that should know better.

I recently saw a display in Ikea declaring how many "CD's" and "DVD's" could be stored in one of their Billy Bookcases.

The most amazing one I've seen, however, was a huge campaign run by Clinton Cards. Every one of their shops had a massive display in its window, adorned with the words, "Who's Birthday Is It?".

That campaign must have cost thousands, but was taken down after a few days when the penny finally dropped that it made the whole company look thick as mince. You'd think they'd have spent some money on a literate proofreader too!

Pete

pcwells wrote: "Who's Birthday Is It?".

Fancy getting the is and the it the wrong way round...

I blame teh internets.

I'm not that bothered as long as I can understand what someone is trying to say. Having grown up in a very multicultural part of the UK, I'm used to all sorts of weird English, both written and spoken. The more irksome for me, is when someone is being deliberately obtuse and pretending not to understand what someone is trying to convey to make a mischievous point.

Written and spoken English has always evolved. That's why it's the most universally spoken language around. It was only the peasant farmers that kept it alive after the Norman invasion. The upper class all learned to speak French pronto, to keep in with their new masters, and hold on to their land and wealth. Much later, when it was safe to speak English again they invented 'Received Pronunciation', to kick down the same folk that had saved the language in the first place. Nobody ever spoke like that before, it was pure invention, and now seems laughable.

English will take what it needs, and discard the rest. Its use and meaning changes form year to year. The Internet will only speed the process up. Maybe apostrophes and commas have had their day. You're either with the pendants, or the peasants. I know who I'll put my money on.

pcwells wrote:I tend to see more apostrophes added to places they have no business being, then absent from their rightful homes.