talkmagic.co.uk

Ok, so i know that although my focus of cards and street magic and cardistry is the main areas i have taken a liking to in magic, i have been looking into Derren Brown, as, obviously, a lot of you mention him here on the forums and i have never watched anything about him/by him.

After watching several of the programs he had on Channel 4 a while ago, it has really began to astonish me at how deep and visual (reactionwise) he goes, and how fascinating he makes Mentalism, a subject i have never known anything about, become.

Now, i do not want to get into it for the sake of it, and at the moment i don't really want to get into it, but I have always been very much a thinker, especialy because i am a writer and often submerse myself in thought. In a novel i am currently working on, from a first person perspective of a lonely and bitter private detective, my character often drops into subjections of his mind and, in certain scenes his mind has a complete sense of control over his emotion, using memories and images to physically shake and scare what is usually a tough, hard boiled personality.

To elaborate, i have always been a very thought driven person, instead of doing things by instinct so much, i am more driven to use trains of thought to lead from one idea to the next.

Anyhow, i have two questions i would like to ask and i hope that those of you that are mentalists can help me. Before i pose these questions i just want to make it clear that i am not intent on learning mentalism at the moment, but more so of learning of mentalism.

First off, i am hoping that some of you can help me with a little problem i am having with my writing lately. The infamous 'writers block' is a dreaded thing among writers, and at the moment i have very nearly finished the plan to my novel, but do not want to carry on with writing until i have. It is quite important i finish the plan soon as i am hoping to have the majority of the novel complete by September, when i go to University.

Lately i have been quite stressed as i have dropped a whole friendship group due to a lot of trouble i was getting myself into, and have also had my car written off after somebody i know crashed into me and refused to give his details leaving me with no proof. I have been really troubled and tense as i am set to lose two years no claim bonus and an excess of £500, meaning i probably cant drive when i get to Uni because of the cost.

That aside, i do not want to ramble on about my personal emotion too much. Partly a casual writers block and partly this stress has really built a barrier in my mind and although i can feel my creative juices flowing back again, i have still been dry of ideas/thoughts on my novel for the last couple of weeks. I was hoping some of you mentalists could perhaps, forgive me if i am mis-perceiving mentalism, give me some pointers and methods of easing my mind and putting it at peace so i can focus on this plan for my novel.

Secondly, as i have said above, i do not wish at this moment in time to study into Mentalism. However, after watching several Derren Brown 'documentaries' if you will, i have become more intrigued than i was at first.

I would very much like it if you could provide me with an overview/introduction to Mentalism, the different forms, how focused it is on psychology and science etc. I may eventually give it a go, but for now i would like to learn a bit about it from you guys who do it, so that i can form an opinion of it and whether i may like to, sometime in the future, partake in it.

As usual i have written a lot, i apologise,
Cheers,
Steve

Hello Steve,

First off, I'm sure everything will sort out - just give yourself time

Regarding mentalism, you should really head over to the sticky 'Becoming a Mentalist' by Craig Browning in the Supports section of TM..

Here's the link to make your job even easier :

http://www.talkmagic.co.uk/ftopic11429.php

Take a good read through it - that pdf was what started me off in mentalism..

I just wanted to clarify something.

Although as i have explained above, i do not at them oment want to get into mentalism but would like to in the future, is there seperate parts of it from the traditional 'seances'

I ask this becasue i am a very agnostic person, coming from a christian background, and although i am not a devout christian i am open to faith if it were to prove itself to me, to be honest that is what i am like to anything, i will not deny/ignore it and will believe it if i see physical proof of its existence. May it be faith, scienctific subjects, extradoirdinary feats etc.

What i am getting at is that i do not feel comfortable with things such as seances and "contacting the dead" kind of subjects. This is for personal reasons tied to what i said beforehand, and would like it very much if when answering my second question above you can take this into consideration and point out and differences or links between areas of mentalism, as i do not wish to partake in such things.

I do hope i am not coming across with this as in anyway a misjudgement of what i percieve mentalism to be, as i have said it intrigues me a lot, so i hope i have not offended anyone with my judgement, i just wanted to make sure i had that out there.

Thankyou for your time and courtesy,
Cheers,
Steve

EDIT: Thankyou Hardic, i will take a look at it! I was more hoping that people could also give me their opinions/experiences with mentalism so i can judge it from a point of view of someone interested of it and not in it. If that makes sense.

Steve, it's Hardik and not Hardic

Anyway, I think that you will have to clear out of your mind that mentalism is all seances and contacting the dead.

There are innumerable mentalists (here, as well) who use mentalism in their shows with contrasting themes. Some use mental magic mixed with comedy (you really ought to see Jay Sankey's Boris Pocus ) while others employ a dark persona during seances.

The thing is , most books will teach you the techniques of mentalism - the presentational approach is open to you to create, innovate and use for yourself..

Mentalism can cover a huge range of different things and types of presentations. The psychology and science angle is quite a popular on at the moment, main because of the lovely Mr Brown but that's not the only way that you can present things. Seances are just one area of it and I guess if you want to be really picky isn't really mentalism at all (but lets not go down that road). There are many many different things that come under mentalism, you've got future seeing and predictions, all sorts of mind reading and psychic themed things, ESP, PK, metal bending. The best thing to do to get a good feel for it is to watch as many different performers as possible and get a feel for what they're doing.

Mentalism is a branch of magic in which the performer simulates either a superhuman or supernatural mental ability. In some cases, there is no simulation involved.

The biggest problem you have is that mentalism means different things to different people. Depending upon who you ask, it covers some or all of the following: psychokinesis (possibly including metal bending with the mind), mediumship (séances and speaking to the departed), mind reading, thought projection, predicting future events, influencing decisions (up to and including 'mind control'), hypnotism, superior memory skills, seeing without using one's eyes and other extraordinary senses, psychometry, amazing physical feats (like Indian Fakirs, for example) and probably a few others I've missed out.

However, particular effects may actually involve more than one of the above. Delivering a reading for a person (like a fortune teller) may involve elements of mind reading (telling people things about themselves that you should not know) but also predictions of future events.

Some effects are accomplished (or aided) by psychological techniques, but many are just tricks. Some things can only really be presented as magic (many performers do mentalism tricks, but in the context of a magic act) or psychic powers, but many effects can be dressed up as pseudo-psychology. There is no need to present mentalism as being in any way linked to religion or any form of afterlife.

Let me be crystal clear about something here: there is ABSOLUTELY no such thing as writer's block. I speak as someone who has made a fairly good living from freelance writing for nearly 7 years.

Hi again.
I know that when you first introduced yourself I might have been a little to quick to say not to get into mentalism for the sake of it- only if you find yourself going that way. That didn't mean if you do have an interest in it you have to be in any way apologetic. I commend you for first grounding yourself in magic, something I think all mentalists should do, but by all means explore your interest in whatever you want- but what I meant in the introduction was because I am not a huge fan of people who jump on the badnwagon of mentalism because it's popular does vex me. Go for it.
Eshly- given how subjective evidence can be, it is unfair to say faith is without evidence- evidence can come in any form to some people and in no form to others. I quote Dunninger (loosley)- For those who believe nothing will disprove, for those who don't, nothing will suffice. (Please corect me, I know that's not fully accurate)
On this subject, things are only what you make of them. It only takes you to tell yourself things won't get you down for it not to happen- if you wake up thinking something will agitate you, trust me, it will!!

Tomo wrote:Let me be crystal clear about something here: there is ABSOLUTELY no such thing as writer's block. I speak as someone who has made a fairly good living from freelance writing for nearly 7 years.

I agree with this in part.
If your writing about Factual subjects, Its very difficult to have nothing to say.
But Ive written pantomimes, and sketches, and re-writen songs.. and i find that Fictional works can dry up.

I think it's ...


"For those who believe, no explanation is necessary; for those who do not believe, no explanation will suffice."

daleshrimpton wrote:

Tomo wrote:Let me be crystal clear about something here: there is ABSOLUTELY no such thing as writer's block. I speak as someone who has made a fairly good living from freelance writing for nearly 7 years.

I agree with this in part.
If your writing about Factual subjects, Its very difficult to have nothing to say.
But Ive written pantomimes, and sketches, and re-writen songs.. and i find that Fictional works can dry up.

Try this for size: http://tinyurl.com/y6sybww

It's all down to the sausages...

Sorry Hardik

Eshly, you are right, i phrased myself incorrectly. What i meant was that Although i am not a christian i am open to religion in that i am not an athiest and believe there could be something 'up there', therefore agnostic.

That aside i don't think of mentalism as all seances and such, i just don't feel comfortable with such things and so therefore thought i would state that, although it was quite badly put, i have no interest in such subjects.

Well Tomo, although i respect your opinion, let me explain my own interpretation for what people call a 'writers block'. To be honest i use the word pretty casually to describe when i am out of ideas/my imagination is pretty dried up. In those terms i use the phrase, but you are right in saying that there is no such standard occurence among writers, it is more so a reflection of a persons current state of mind and ability at the time to be creative and imaginative. I call my personal issues with creation of ideas in writing, a 'writer's block', for lack of better term. This is also completely different when taling on the subjects of journalism/freelance opposed to fictional, which is what i am into.

In regards to the article you posted, I have been writing since i was very young, which is obviously wildly different to now, and dare i say it (i dont want to sound egotistical), one of my main talents/natural gifts is writing, i find it very easy to write, and usually once i sit down with a plan in front of me it flows until i am too tired to continue. However, creating ideas and plans, that is my downfall as although i am imaginative and have good ideas, they take a while to come, and at the moment are not coming at all.

@Sam The only reason i am so apologetic is because i do not want to offend anyone by making unecessary misjudgements. Funnily enough i did not know it was so popular, from what i have come across within magic, cardistry and street magic seemed more so to me, but hey im starting out so i havent gotten a great understanding of everything yet. And i think you phrased my opinion on faith much better there.

I thank you all for the replies, it is good to see a range of opinions rather than try to gain an understanding from information alone.

Cheers,
Steve

I can edit in my sleep and write non-fiction at the drop of a hat, but fiction is a very different animal.

I'm just coming out of a 20-year block that involved writing and everything else creative. Not fun at all.

Getting involved in the National Novel Writing Month (NaNoWriMo) has been a big help. Changing priorities from quality to quantity for one month a year can sort of lubricate the gears. Admittedly, my record of NaNoWriMo hasn't been good, because every November so far has been blighted by events outside my control (deaths in the family the past two times). But taking part is still good. And there's nobody left in the family to die on me this year, so I have high hopes for 2010.

I know some people here pooh-pooh the idea of subliminal CDs, but they've helped me. I started off with two CDs, one for general creativity and the other specifically about creative writing. Playing them on continuous loop overnight gives me very strange dreams! After a year or so with them, without any perceptible daytime improvement, I bought a more intensive couple of CDs that are closer to hypnosis. Listening to these for a few months, combined with the subliminals overnight, has really started to crack the problem.

Anyway, to get back to the main question...

Lee Earle's distinction between mentalism and magic is a good place to start. Magic provides entertainment, but the spectator (assuming an adult of normal mental capacity) will never truly believe that what he's seeing is real. In mentalism, the spectator should have some suspicion that what he's seeing might really be happening.

The basic point of mentalism is that you're demonstrating you have mental powers or abilities greater than the average person's. There are lots of ways to go about this, and lots of different explanations you can give.

The traditional approach is that you simply have an above-average mind with super-normal powers, including what we would now call ESP or psychic abilities. Or as Lee Earle put it, "I have a superior mind. You don't. You may applaud now."

A more modern explanation is that you've made an intensive study of human psychology, and therefore can predict what people will do, influence their behaviour, and seem to read their minds. This approach is very acceptable and believable to a modern audience.

Another approach includes various shades of bizarre magic, with more or less hinting that you may be using magical or occult powers. This has a lot of scope to be made frightening, and is a natural companion to fortune-telling, seances, and so forth.

Not that you have to be tremendously explicit. When Derren Brown gives any sort of explanation, it falls into the "psychological expert" category. But he also performs spooky, seance-type effects, in which case he gives no explanation. An awful lot of fans believe he really does have supernatural powers.

Honestly now, has anyone ever seen a brick layer with brick layers' block? Or an artist with artists' block? How about a surgeon? That's as much about creativity as it is procedure. Do highly paid ad execs tend to tell expectant clients that they couldn't think of anything? Is a cartoonist with a commission to supply a topical bit each day suddenly going to tell his ed that he'll have a blank square to fill tomorrow? Film makers have a monumental creative mountain to climb, but studios churn out highly creative and accomplished material with regular monotony. It's down to procrastination and motivation (creative inertia and momentum, if you will).

If you can't think of anything to write about, write about that. Keep the momentum going because once you know what you're going to write, the real secret to finishing it is to keep bashing the keys. Even if you're resorting to writing about the difficulties involved in what you're writing, use it to keep the energy an the focus up.

That's really all I have to say on the matter. I can't remember who said it, but "You're only a writer when you're sat writing".