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Guys..

I realise this is a simple sleight (if it is indeed one) but I have never had to do one before and I'm struggling to get it right.

Basically I'm learning the Ambitous card routine (well the start at least) but I'm having trouble with the thumb count he explains (ie. with the pack held in the normal (I think it's the mechaninc grip) way in the right hand and thumb count two cards with the right thumb.

Are there any little tips you guys could give me (like where to hold, flex the pack etc) to make this a little easier.. or is it just a case of more practice and experimentation until I get it right for me..

Either answer will be fine..

(Ps. If I have given too much away with my description.. I appologise.. so please edit)

Thanks

the easiest way i found to do this is simply hold the deck in your normal dealing grip (mechanics) and curl the first finger under the deck which causes the deck to flex upwards and simply allow the cards to flick upwards by riffling the thumb down the corner of the deck.... OR if you hold the deck slightly bevveled to the left you can easily riffle of any number of cards (ok i know bevveled isnt actually the word i was looking for but the deck should look like \____\ this when looking at the edge nearest you when held in the right hand)



ok i know i made it more complicated when trying to make it easier but i know what i mean!!!

the_mog..

I did find it easier with my finger underneath but Daryl suggests that you don't do this.

I have tried the bevel and this is what I'm struggling with. (although it is easier then a straight pack I have to agree.. )

Should I use the tip of my thumb, fingernail or does it not matter ?

At this point (I've been trying for a few days now.. but it does take me ages to suss everything out) I'll take any hints..

Thanks

A sleight that's executed while the spectator is looking directly at your hand is never simple. It took me a while to get a decent, accurate thumb count. Like the_mog says it helps to have the deck bevelled away from your thumb slightly. You say 'right hand'. Are you left-handed? If you are then the right hand is probably best, but if you're right-handed you'll almost definitely get better results with the deck in the left.
If you grip the deck in what you think is the right way just try riffling your thumb down the corner of the deck. Is it a smooth, card-by-card riffle? If it is you've probably got the grip about right.
What works for me is to try and use the flesh of my thumb-tip, or as close to the tip as possible and riffle the card as close to the corner as possible. This helps with accuracy AND should help keep your thumb straight and relaxed rather than turning it into a tense-looking hook (tension is always bad as it's noticable, even if only subconsciously, by the spectator). The best position for me has my thumb tilting slightly nail-up and contacting the cards just above the cuticle.
Remember that you're doing it as the spectator is likely to be watching the deck AND you're doing it at the 'wrong' end of the deck, so a bit of misdirection like a finger-click or a bit of patter/question to the spectator doesn't go amiss. Keeping the deck low and tilting it slightly away from the body helps too. The most important thing is to try and stay relaxed though. If you look relaxed you'd be surprised what flies past people.

I hope *I'm* not getting too detailed for an open forum. If someone deletes this I'll turn it into a PM instead.

PS Is it Daryl's ACR you're learning?

I believe that the method you are trying to use is to facilitate a DL???

In that case, the best thumb count techniques are the more invisible and natural type. The following is my own preferred way, but it's quite easy...

1. Hold the deck in dealer grip, casually in your usual dealer hand (mine is my left, so I will go that route here)

2. Using your pinky, ring and middle finger, support between them and the thumb-base muscle, but gently—to help with part 3...

3. Bring your index finger to the top short edge—right by the top left corner... so it's pad is on the whole of the top side of the deck

4. Line the pad of the thumb so that it runs along the left edge of the deck—it's tip is at the corner almost

5. Using pressure from the index finger and the middle finger, grip the deck firmly

6. Use the thumb's pad to simultaneously apply pressure and stroke downwards over the top left of the deck

7. With practice, you will be able to release one card at a time. the pressure of the thumb holds the break

8. I have found, after many moons of practicing, that the above grip ALSO allows you to count cards with the pinky—thus allowing a pinky break. Although, this takes rather large hands and a strong pinky!!!

Hope that makes sense

ANOTHER WAY which I find far more simple (and useable) is to hold the deck in dealer grip... use the middle and ring fingers to 'wedge' the deck towards the thumb's base... which SHOULD cause the top portion of the deck to slide, so the view of the deck from the bottom should be an angle (like a \_\ shape)

This allows you to EASILY come over with the right hand and pluck off two cards by thumbing the pile at the lower left corner. This is the way I do most DL setups, cos it's fast and is barely noticeable. Also, there is no thumb counting involved, so it looks very inconspicuous.

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trial and error

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trial and error
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Thank you.. both of you..

I think your tips will really help.. I'll give them e try tonight.

And Charles.. yes it is Daryls ACR I'm learning.. and yes Seige it is a DL I'm trying to pull off afterwards.

Misdirection.. I think that's basically the key when merged with a decent count and DL.

Thanks again.

The second method of Seige's is the one I use - and it was one of those sleights that frustrated me and frustrated me until I gave up on it.

However, going back to it after a couple of weeks seemed to make a world of difference and it came straight away. My DL has never been spotted, unless I'm practising tricks in front of a mate, then it gets picked up only through repetition and their curiosity.

Damn their curiosity...

when I do a DL I tend to use my first finger and take the cards from the side, but its all down to preference (and which trick your doing) I guess !!!

sorry mog, that is not really i good post my bad.

Ok Practise one method and you will develop great skill with it. likw whne ever you are watching TV or something just keep thumb counting until you can do it without thinking. this is a great way to practise sleights. well it is for me let me know how it works out.

the_mog wrote:the easiest way i found to do this is simply hold the deck in your normal dealing grip (mechanics)

Just a little correction here as this is a common mistake that I have seen and it is kind of a ppet hate of mine . The mechanics grip is NOT the normal dealing grip. In fact a standard or normal dealing grip is usually called dealing or dealers grip. The mechanics grip the cards are held deeper in the hand with the forefinger shielding the front edge of the deck, in this grip you are basically gripping the cards with your forefinger at the top of the deck and the heel of your hand at the bottom and the other fingers do not actually hold the deck. This grip is used to facilitate bottoms, seconds etc hence the name "mechanics grip" the mechanic being the card cheat.

Mark

Also in answer to the original question I would recommend learning a way to do a DL without needing a break. Seige's second method (strike DL) is a particularly good one. The double push off is also very effective but takes a lot more practice.

Mark

Mark Chandaue wrote:I would recommend learning a way to do a DL without needing a break.
Mark

I think Slippery is reffering to Daryl's Ambitious Card video when he talks about learnig the Ambitious Card. In this case the thumb count would be used in the Snap Double that Daryl teaches on the video. This type, as I'm sure you know, of DL is breakless.

Ok, I'd recommend learning a double that doesn't require a thumb count (which is essentially a break regardless of whether it is held). A breakless DL would not require using a thumb count to create a break between the top 2 cards and the rest of the deck.

Mark