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I still don't understand why it's ok to pretend you're reading someone's body language to tell them a word they wrote, but it's so bad to tell them you're psychic.

What's the difference? Assuming neither of them are true, why is lying about psychology better than lying about being psychic?

I'm of the opinion that if I'm going to act as though I can make things appear/disappear/teleport at will, the implication that I can read minds isn't that big a brag.

Also I'd rather chew off my own face than hear another person tell me about micro-signals and eye movement. But that's just personal preference.

kartoffelngeist wrote:I still don't understand why it's ok to pretend you're reading someone's body language to tell them a word they wrote, but it's so bad to tell them you're psychic.

Within the theatre of performance, either is okay. Outside of that, I would say there is a slight difference. We do, to some extent, signal things with body language, micro-expressions and whatnot. We don't beam signals with our brain that others can pick up with their brains. One is an exaggeration of reality, the other is (evidence pending) a perversion of reality.

I don't think that there's anything wrong at all with implying that you've got some extra sense as long as you're only doing so to entertain. When it becomes wrong I think is if you start knowingly using that false ability to take advantage of people.

Banachek just says he uses his five sense to create the illusion of a sixth, which seems both accurate and fair.

that was ned rudtledge's originally (i think?)

though, thats still as much of a lie as psychic in my book - sixth sense carries many suggestions within it...

from the film about seeing dead people, to being used in all kinds of horror and sci-fi books...

everything we claim has a downside...

you know when people say "he was so convincing he had people going up to him after the show asking for advice on the future..."

i wonder if psychological illusionists get "he was so convincing he had people going up to him after the show asking for advice on their partner's mental health..."

both moral dilemmas, both could be very damaging, potentially...

I'm thinking of using the phrase 'psychic charlatan' - just cos its enjoyable to say...

Can I intervene here and say it is completley subjective and prone to individual taste. There is no right or wrong answer on this one.
I think people are turning anti-psychological because so many people are doing the psychological approach, in part due to Derren- that doesn't make it invalid, it just means people need to think for themselves.
As I said before, we have to think about our objectives and why we are doing any of this? Certainly not just to prove an imaginary ability, but to create wonder in people, to make them happy, entertain them and move people. That is where what we do becomes both an art and an entertainment form, and anybody who knows anything about either will tell you there is the back of a cigarette packet between them.
As long as what we do are serving their funtions to meet the objectives you have as a performer it doesn't matter weather it is intuition, psychology, trickery or whatever.
My Personal approach is hardly unique, but it is a mixture of the psychological presentation, the Berglasesque middle ground Lenoir mentioned and outright ignorance of the issue and leaving it subject to personal interpretation. It is thought through in each effect and depends on my own judgement- there is no strict, inhibiting formula I want to apply to it and limit creativity. It is a complex issue and I do not want to write another essay but I dislike anybody who claim's absolute truth- because such a thing IS ludacris.

And can we also stop all this nonsense about it's unethical to use a psychological presentation- it is rubbish. It is unethical to pretend to talk to someone's dead relatives. It is unethical to use mentalism tricks to advertise psychology and con people out of hard earned cash. If you are saying you are intuitive, or have studied psychology for years- that is not unethical- it is bull, but it is not unethical. If you don't like decieving people why on earth are you on a magic forum?

I would love a repeal, honestly- I really do enjoy thinking about what I believe and the conclusions I make, but as of yet I have seen no convincing logic. Ethics is a very subjective matter- but if you bring showing someone a 'body language' trick into rebuke, you also bring the whole of magic, as that too is the art of demonstrating imaginary abilities, into question.
Thank you

If you don't want to be regarded as a psychic, don't do psychic magic/mentalism. How ever many explanations you give, someone will still think you are psychic. That is just the way it is. Maybe, as part of a "magic" show, you might have an effect that involves a prediction, etc, and then folks might assume that you used trickery. But, if you are a mentalist, folks will attribute special powers to you. Even if you claim psychology, you are still not being quite upfront with your explanation - folks will think you have a certain knowledge or ability that you don't really have.

Personally, I like it if folks think I'm psychic, even though I never make that claim.

I do claim to be psychic and I love it!

Previous replies have mentioned that some people will believe you're psychic no matter how much you tell them it's NLP or whatever. And vice versa, members of my audience simply will refuse to believe I'm psychic because they're ardent non-believers. And that's ok.

After my very first 'proper' performance, I was aware of people saying "He's not actually psychic, he's using psychology." And they were still just as impressed with the show. From then on, I've added little nuances into my scripting, I suppose you might call them Derrenisms, such as mispronouncing words into others or holding their hands in certain ways. The 'believers' think nothing of it, don't even notice it. For the other camp, they can feel quite smug in "working out" how I did it.

If you're going to make yourself believable in the psychic claims, disclaimers are no bad things, they certainly stop some stupid questions at the end of your show.