talkmagic.co.uk

In light of recent topics that have appeared on TalkMagic and other forums I wanted to express my view of a problem which is corrupting the purpose of these forums.

I would like to say now that this is my opinion and that if you don't aggree with it, which I can gaurantee some people won't, so be it. Also this is the culmination of my feelings for some time.

This problem is not a localised problem that has only just arisen but recently it has been more evident than in the past. Just as the many "issues" this forum has to face such as exposure or arguments, this problem is apparent in varying degrees.
When a person joins these forums it is for one basic reason. Magic. That is obvious. As they use the forums more they become established in the forums, people get to know them as the contribute to the varying posts and threads that are here. But it is all to easy to get carried away and abuse these forums, using them as a soap box to lift your self up with. In my opinion there are two types of abuses that people commonly commit.
The first is that of simply lying. It is human nature to desire respect and power in everything we do and even here, on an internet forum this is still true. You want to sound more advanced than you really are and so you use language and phrases to seem so. Now I'm not neccesarily talking about "newbies" (a detestible phrase) but also more established magicians do this aswell. Infact they are in a better position to do so if you think about it. That is a basic abuse that takes place in different guises and subterfuges throughout these forums and I know that in the past I have done it and probably will do it again in the future, to an extent. However, people can become consumed by this desire to gain respect and it is wrong. What's the point? You will just dig yourself into a hole that eventually will cruble in ontop of you when anybody puts pressure on your "knowledge" or "skill".
The second abuse that takes place on these forums is page filling and this happens for almost exactly the same reasons as the first abuse but in a much subtler way. A page filler will happily digress off a topic to great extent using their knowledge of other areas to fill great expanses of forum space simply to boost the number of posts they have attributed to them. (Some may argue that even this is a useless digression, but I feel it is a neccesary one.) These digressions can be subtle such as simply posting useless posts like "Yep, I agree with you" or they can be entire chunks of text that have absolutely nothing to do with magic except for the tenuous link the poster might make to the original topic. In short they use these posts to show off.
I'm not going to name names because that is not constructive nor am I trying to "have a go" at anybody in particular, but I think it's obvious what has sparked this topic. You may not see this problem as a major one or you may not even have noticed it but if any of this strikes a chord in you then please try and take it to heart and remember why we use this place.

Magic is our purpose, our curse and everything in between but it is not our soapbox.

And Goldfish climbs off his soap box.

Thanks for that Toad, that was a really useful and productive post as always.

Like I said in the original thread, I thought it was necessary to say what I said unlike many of the useless posts which seem to accumulate around certain other posters. It's like they just seem drawn to some people.

Also I think my original post holds some (if not alot of) relevance to the forum in general as oppossed to just one or two other members, unlike the conversations that have gone on in these forums before.

However, like I said at the begining of the post, I can gaurantee that somebody will not aggree with me and that somebody just happens to be you. Thanks for that.

hmm - I just wrote a long post in reply, but I did something wrong and it got lost

I think you'll find the sort of thing you're talking about in any forum, as you probably will in any discussion. In many ways it's human nature - we all have a need for acceptance and most of the time we approach things with our own agenda. It's irritating sometimes - but I don't think there will ever be a perfect forum. We all go through different phases in how we respond to a post etc. One day I may be really helpful, and the next week I give one liners - cos I want to be part of the discussion, but don't have the time or inclination to type an essay. Or maybe I had a really bad performance and I need to reassure myself that I'm ok, or maybe I've had a really blown people away and I feel like I've arrived and I can solve everyone's problems .

It's important that we give ourselves the space to be ourselves - I think that's what makes this a community, rather than a committee meeting.

That's ok Goldfish, I was just making an important an valid point but managed to do so a lot more succinctly than you. If however you want me to explain the point in a more detailed and fuller/longer way, then just let me know

Hi

I am still new to this Forum and regardless of my pedigree in magic (I’ve done loads of things spanning 20 years and still know nothing) I still have to gain the “Respect”

GoldFish wrote:However, people can become consumed by this desire to gain respect and it is wrong. ".

of the moderators and administrators to get access to the restricted area, that’s fine it may take time but I’m sure I can prove myself worthy.

I have read in various posts that the number of posts is important, the more you post the better the chance of getting into the restricted area. I believe again that quality of posts and experience is more important than having the time to reply to everything.( I must admit I have loads of time as I’m off work with a broken Pinky )

GoldFish wrote:The second abuse that takes place on these forums is page filling and this happens for almost exactly the same reasons as the first abuse but in a much subtler way.

The nature of the forum and the way that access is granted probably creates the situations described by GoldFish.

I have no doubt there are members of the restricted area who have gained access because they know the moderators or in their professional capacity are known to the moderators.

GoldFish wrote:These digressions can be subtle such as simply posting useless posts like "Yep, I agree with you".

I only hope that this post is not seen as any of the above

GeoC wrote: I have no doubt there are members of the restricted area who have gained access because they know the moderators or in their professional capacity are known to the moderators.

However, nothing is further from the truth.

The decision as to whether a member is INVITED (yes, it's by invitation only) to the restricted area is based on methods regardless of 'friendship/preferential' reasoning, and has absolutely NOTHING to do with quantity of postings.

More of a consideration is the attitude, maturity, contribution to the MAGIC aspect of the forum, and community spirit. Quality and relevance of postings are far more important than quantity.

Each invitation is deliberated carefully. Proof of knowing the Aardvark Overhand Shuffle Technique is nothing you couldn't have gleaned from a textbook or a Google search.

And there are a few 'long-term RESPECTED' magicians who haven't automatically had access as well. Why should they?

The rate and frequency of off-topic (magic) postings in this forum is beginning to tarnish it slightly. Pretty soon, if this place isn't brought back under the Magic umbrella, it will turn into a MagicRabbit clone. (or whatever the place is called )

I am sorry but I am going to lock this thread again, because I see no point in the almost predictable backlash which I am expecting to see here.

And as we see, our newer and more respected posters such as GeoC (hello!) have already got the wrong end of the stick about gaining access (see the 'Restricted Access' area for the announcement)

Can we just Talk Magic for a while?

On the basis that folks will have different perceptions and misconceptions, perhaps we ought to give a brief explanation of how Lounge and MO Access is discussed?

As stated above, the quantity of posts is largely irrelevant. There were many suggestions and discussions over the past year about whether a minimum quantity of posts should be established and for a while it was around the 100 mark. However, the real test is the quality and content of posts. One liners certainly don't work as they have little quality or content and extended diatribes on abstract topics will also be less than useful. Confrontational and aggressive postings mean that member may very well never be considered for access - let's face it, we have enough problems to deal with in the open forum without inviting those problems into the reserved areas. We have had our fingers burnt in the past and the trouble caused is simply not worth it in terms of our time and the distraction from the whole point of this Forum. It's easy to delete and lock threads which seem to be going out of control but we usually prefer to let things run their course as far as possible as long as they don't give a bad impression to the newer visitors - the life blood and future of this Forum.

The Moderators/Admin crew constantly monitor and review Forum activity, the type and style of postings going on and, from time to time, one member will become noticed. At this point all Mods/Admins are polled, discussions take place over a period of time and eventually a vote is taken. If the vote results in a general 'No' then no more is said about it but that member will be reviewed again later on in the light of newer postings. If the vote is a 'Yes' then the invitation to join the Lounge or MO section is sent.

At no time has anyone been granted access on the basis that they know someone - it simply doesn't work that way and, if anyone tried it, there are enough other Mods/Admins to elbow any suggested candidate who may be pushed forward as a favourite!

Some professional Magicians have access but they have gone through exactly the same discussion and voting process although we assume that their standing in the world of Magic is sufficient evidence to take the place of regular postings! Those same professionals have kindly made suggestions, offered tips and hints and, in some cases, whole routines on the basis that they are in the reserved area and we simply can't betray that trust by shortening or diluting the invitation process.

Bottom line - every one of us had to wait and prove ourselves to the previous Mods/Admins before being invited - there's no reason why that process should change.