talkmagic.co.uk

Ive been thinking about this for a while and wondered what everyone else thinks.

W are all on this site because we have a love of magic. I dont believe that anyone who is of the non magic variety will go to the effort of creating an account just to see/learn something they could just do on youtube. so my question is this.............

If i see an effect i like and then read a review of it on here, whats the problem with the person just coming out and saying what the gimmick is or how it works??

Fact is, if we like it, we then find out how it works, we will then buy it!

Im sure im not the only one who has seen an effect, bought it thinking it was something else, only to be left feeling deflated about it. (and lets be honest, some of these cost alot of money!)

It just feels to me sometimes that we are not really a community that looks out for each other. We all like to feel a part of things but at the end of the day, the majority are out to help themselves.

Ive asked on other sites about the best way to do a DL and all i got was a list of books to read!! I own many books but have yet to find a comfortbale solution to my problem. Why cant someone just say...."well i do it this way.........."

Ah!! I just had a thought, maybe thats what the restricted area is for, but by the time you get access to that, you have already missed out on a load of help that you could of had!

Phew! Rant over, thanks for listening. If you want me, ill be hiding in the dagobah system

Alec

Well, the idea is that you think for yourself and do stuff on youir own.
Yoiu need to rememer that we can't expose someone elses material, and that we also don't want to expose anything- even if it is a classic pass, in case an 'outsider' might peer in. Use private messages. And I thought peole were quite open anyway.

Every now and then, we get somebody in here that begins his post by:
Hi, I saw a mate of mine do an amazing trick. He did ... (and it goes on describing some magic trick). He wants to find out how it's done and that's simply not the goal of this forum.

You are correct about the restricted area, but only to a certain limit. We don't explain other people's magic. Lots of magicians work hard to publish their tricks or moves and it's not fair to take away their money by explaining here.

Further details are of course discussed over PMs like Sam points out and if you have the opportunity to participate in a friendly magic meeting, you can always ask someone to guide you, they will be happy to.

Don't you belong to some local magic club? That's really the place to get guidance. If you're not a member, check out this useful link: Click here!

you also have to remember that these open forum pages are visited by Google, so if we are not careful we could end up exposing every effect just by discussing it on this site.

No.

IAIN wrote:No.

Thanks for that Iain. Have you ever considered a career in politics? We could use someone like you at the helm

kobain wrote:I dont believe that anyone who is of the non magic variety will go to the effort of creating an account just to see/learn something they could just do on youtube

You don't need to create an account to read the forum. You only need one to post.

kobain wrote:If i see an effect i like and then read a review of it on here, whats the problem with the person just coming out and saying what the gimmick is or how it works??

It is against the forum rules. You may not like these rules, but they exist. We could discuss the reasons but that's not really the point.

kobain wrote:Fact is, if we like it, we then find out how it works, we will then buy it!

I don't think that this is a fact. The secret (method) of the effect is one of the most valuable parts of it. When you know the secret you are less likely to buy it, unless the gimmick or whatever is hard or (more) expensive to make.

kobain wrote:Im sure im not the only one who has seen an effect, bought it thinking it was something else, only to be left feeling deflated about it. (and lets be honest, some of these cost alot of money!)

Agreed. Luckily we have a Reviews section and anyone is free to ask for opinions on the usefulness of an effect. It is more important for potential buyers to know if a performance requires skilful sleight of hand than if it needs gadget X, Y or Z.

kobain wrote:It just feels to me sometimes that we are not really a community that looks out for each other. We all like to feel a part of things but at the end of the day, the majority are out to help themselves.

And yet you, an unknown here, asked for ideas on performing with the Iraq deck and within a couple of days had two serious answers for free. I'd call that helpful. However, in magic as in life, many people are primarily self-interested. That's human nature, no? It doesn't mean we can't help each other when it's convenient.

kobain wrote:Ive asked on other sites about the best way to do a DL and all i got was a list of books to read!! I own many books but have yet to find a comfortbale solution to my problem. Why cant someone just say...."well i do it this way.........."

Practice a lot. It's the only way so do it that way.

I have to agree with everything that Ted, Iain and everybody else has said. Magic and Mentalism is an Art, it is something that has to be learnt and practised and for many it is a life long learning curve.
There are too many people that just want to know how a certain 'trick' is done just to perhaps show off to their friends.
When creative people spend many many hours, days and even years developing a trick or routine it is disheartening when somebody such as the Masked Magician comes along and exposses the method for his own gains.
At the end of the day a lot of the methods of Magic routines are simple and if you really knew the method before would you really buy it??
There is so much more to the art than the 'trick' itself.

I think some posters are slightly too secretive (paranoid?) about vocabulary. TT, IT, and DL are handy abbreviations, fine. The thread with s***i as every other word was just annoying. I'm not even sure I'm allowed to spell it out now, but if I did, the word is still meaninglessly obscure to the layman. If they want to put in more work on Google to find out the meaning, then fine. The word's easy enough to find on suppliers' sites, and the concept has entered general public consciousness.

Giving away the secrets to published effects is something else again. It's just not done, even in a review or behind closed doors.

My mentor was so "anal" when it came to protecting secrets that he'd wrap the harness to his broom suspension in a blanket so no one else would see it back stage... not even other magicians who probably (given the sort of venues we worked) owned one as well. The performers of his era and before that were exceptionally secretive, just go watch a couple of the magician themed movies of recent release and you'll see for yourself a glimpse as to what it was like (especially in The Prestige).

Many, myself included, believe that magic is too readily accessible these days, specifically due to the internet. Not just the forums and all the idiots on YouTube but the overwhelming number of merchants that willingly sell to whoever has a credit card number. That's not how it was, even 20 years ago there was still the old Brick & Mortar attitude about earning your right to learn.

You've been given a great deal of perspective, I hope it inspires you to become more than just another guy out to learn how to do a trick rather than how to create magic.

A lot of this comes down to your views on exposure... ( )
Whatever they are, it doesn't matter because... well- all I can say is watch any great, great magician- Tommy Wonder for example, the methods are rarley incredible and most magicians will know exactley what he's doing: but who cares? He is a billion times better than a monotonous bore who can fool everyone.

I think, for one, if we are reviewing a product/book whatever, it probably isn't ours to give away the secret. People earn a living.

Also, if everyone knew how everything was done, magic would stagnate a bit. The secrecy breeds creativity in my opinion and I approve of it.

Fantastic feedback everyone, many thanks.

Im starting to realise what damage could be done to the profession if there was too much info out there.

Being a hobbiest at the present time, its hard to appreciate that its some peoples job.

Thanks all, for responding to this post.

Alec

and as for being dissapointed with the "secret", i got over that long ago...i buy stuff cos i like the premise, and i reckon i could learn from that if nothing else - so therefore its worth the money to me in that way...

and if i don't like, or simply can't "do" the method supplied, you can always adapt/come up with a different way of doing it...which again, is also worth the money...

in the secret areas on here, its more about sharing your own work - no secrets shared as such, unless its your own moves or whatever else...or developing an idea...

the worst thing to do though, is to ask to be let in...doesnt work like that around these here parts...

I believe it's probably all in the restricted area. The problem I think is, that when you are a beginner you can't get access, and when you are already an accomplished magician then you don't need it! (as much).