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Hi Guys

I have a theory on the french drop and its use/missuse by the magician. However, my theory hinges on what i think the original description was, or more importantly, the context of the original description.

Does anyone know where the first written description of this move can be found ? When funds permit i am planning to treat myself to the 'Essential Robert Houdin'. I understand there is a description of the move in this tome, would this be the first ?

Any help on this is appreciated

jim

I don't know anything about that but I do know the best way to do the French Drop. This will assist the illusion by a great deal. Instead of having the left hand stationary and the right hand coming towards it move the left hand toward the right hand. This movement aids the illusion by a significat degree. Not many people know this tip. Now you do.

Now we all do.

That's interesting. I always taught the move that the two hands come together in the centre, but trying out just moving the coin hand does look quite good in the mirror. It's doubtful that I would change now (after umpteen years) but for beginners I can see the benefit.

As for the original description, I think it's been lost in the mists of time. Back when Mark was a lad.

Ian

mark lewis wrote:I don't know anything about that but I do know the best way to do the French Drop. This will assist the illusion by a great deal. Instead of having the left hand stationary and the right hand coming towards it move the left hand toward the right hand. This movement aids the illusion by a significat degree. Not many people know this tip. Now you do.

Fantastic advice Mark, although next time it's probably not a bad idea to mention which hand you are holding the coin in.

This is definetely when the move is most deceptive, and is actually the way i do it. I had been using it that way for years, and for a while was convinced i was the only one doing so. Then last christmas i read one of your old posts in the restricted area and you described the exact method i use, and was probably being usd by you before i was even born !

This method of doing the drop is actually connected to my theory.

jim

I learned this method from page 84 of the Magician's Handbook by Robert Parrish when I was 16 years old and have used it for nigh on 50 years. It really is the best way and it is not too late for Kendall to change course. I have often thought that he needs to improve himself. Here is the relevant extract.

"The usual mistake in the performance of the move is to hold the left hand entirely still, the right hand apparently lifting the coin from the left fingers and moving away with it. The effect is much more illusory if the left hand moves with the coin up to the right hand. The moment the coin is masked by the tips of the right fingers, the coin is allowed to drop and the right fingers close around a purely imaginary coin. The right hand is now moved upward. The left second, third, and fourth fingers close slightly around the coin, finger palming it, and the forefinger is pointed at the closed right hand"

The book was written in 1944. Proof of my contention that there really is no need to read anything written after 1954.

Thanks Mark, that was very interesting. Its strange how this seems to have been lost or overlooked by most magicians somewhere along the line.

jim

Yes. Hardly anyone knows about this. You are the first person I have ever come across who does it this way. Congratulations. You are in exalted company.
Me.

I believe Teller (& Penn) do the move the way you described. Since they were the ones who got me into magic, I've been doing the french drop that way since I started.

I use the french drop for a switch rather than anything else, perhaps it is called something else. For me it just makes more sense. I don't normally hold a coin in that manner unless I am displaying it. So I have my gold piece of eight on display in typical french drop position and change it into something a little more modern.

Growing up as an anglo in a french province gives the french drop a a different meaning. When my friends and I used to drop the french they, (the french) were not happy about it at all. But sometimes the sound was satisfying. No disprespect to any french people. There is a difference between a Quebec french seperatist than any other frenchmen. But that would involve getting into a discussion of Quebec Politics over the last 50 yrs or so. And what does that have to do with magic? Nothing, but I just started typing and all this came out. I'll stop now.

I believe the Vernon advice on the French Drop is very useful. It is a mistake to position the coin in your hand deliberately. It is much better to have the coin on the table and pick it up in the left hand in the exact position for the sleight. No need for adjustment. I really would advise against suspicious adjustements of position with this move. Pick up the coin ALREADY in position as Vernon suggested.

bmat wrote:I use the french drop for a switch rather than anything else, perhaps it is called something else. For me it just makes more sense. I don't normally hold a coin in that manner unless I am displaying it. So I have my gold piece of eight on display in typical french drop position and change it into something a little more modern.

Yes its still the french drop, and as you pointed out the move has other applications apart from the usual vanish. As you also pointed out, holding a coin in the usual manner before the actual move is in most cases not natural, it can also tend to draw attention to the move. When using a coin I will try to choreograph the routine so that the coin is picked up from the mat/table on the left side and passed to the right (doing the drop), there is no actual display pose in between. This keeps it looking natural, and gives a reason for passing it to the opposite hand.

The actual procedure I use follows closely the formula for misdirection as set out by the great John Ramsey. I call attention to the coin or make some comment about it as i reach over with the left hand, it is clearly seen to be picked up. I then look up as I carry on with my patter and the coin is apperently passed to the right hand. My focus is then shifted to the right hand as the left pulls back the sleeve. Finally the right hand is opened to show the coin has vanished.

hope this isnt revealling too much

jim

Wow Mark. You posted your message as I was writing mine. Seems we have very similar ideas on this move.

jim

They do say that great minds think alike.