talkmagic.co.uk

Maybe I want to spoil it using profanity I am fine with being called intellectual, but 'posh intellectual' is more of an insult than anything. It conjures up this horrible image of an Etonian social elite peering down on everyone from.. why the.. hell am I wasting my time trying to describe the sort, you can just Google William Buckley and you'll get exactley what I mean.

I assume then, that I swear to unconciously make sure, even though I may use some words longer than 3 letters long, that do not have numbers in them or refer to something more significant than X-factor or- god forbid- any American disney rubbish... I'm not one of those pricks

I have a new poll:

Do you prefer arguments or magic?

SELECT A - Arguments
SELECT B - Magic






.

Every six months we have this discussion. And do you know what? I always enjoy it.

And nothing ever changes. The psychics keep on being psychic, the sceptics keep on scoffing into their beer, the undecided continue to dither on the fence, and six months from now we'll all be here doing it again. I find that rather heart-warming. It speaks to me of continuity.

There are three things that are inevitable in life. Death, taxes, and magicians harking on about psychics.

V.E. Day wrote:I have a new poll:

Do you prefer arguments or magic?

SELECT A - Arguments
SELECT B - Magic
.

Well first I think you'll have to define 'argument' and we should discuss and clarify the difference between 'argument', 'debate' and 'discussion'. Then we can move on to the more sticky issue of defining 'magic' that alone should take three pages. Also could we add a third category 'Arguing about magic'?

Jean Eugene Roberts wrote:Well first I think you'll have to define 'argument' and we should discuss and clarify the difference between 'argument', 'debate' and 'discussion'. Then we can move on to the more sticky issue of defining 'magic' that alone should take three pages.

Good idea.

I did warn everyone that using logic is tedious.

On that point, I just remembered I was only ever playing the devil's advocate and I really need to go to bed. And that I despise people who overuse logic.

(Not that I would ever think of doing such a thing, and accidentally getting too into it )

SamGurney wrote:I did warn everyone that using logic is tedious.

I certainly never bother with it, I just have God tell me the answer.

I must say that I am rather disappointed with young Gurney. Up to now I have regarded him as one of the more sensible young twits here. However now I see that he uses disgraceful profanity in his posts and has even become quite genitally communicative in his last post.

Quite disgraceful. I do hope he returns to using big words that nobody understands rather than the cheaper less intellectual type that everybody understands especially the lower classes.

Up to now I had high hopes for him but regrettably now he has confirmed my opinion that youth is wasted on the young.

just me wrote:

IAIN wrote:what is the sound of one hand clapping?

cl, the other hand makes the 'ap' sound.

Anyone who is a fan of the old TV show The Rockford Files knows it's the sound that occurs when your guru slaps you for disagreeing with him.

gypsyfish wrote: The Rockford Files

Gosh. I'd forgotten about that wonderful show. Now I do feel old. He lived on the beach with his dad, didn't he?

gypsyfish wrote:

just me wrote:

IAIN wrote:what is the sound of one hand clapping?

cl, the other hand makes the 'ap' sound.

Anyone who is a fan of the old TV show The Rockford Files knows it's the sound that occurs when your guru slaps you for disagreeing with him.

sorry but terry pratchet was more of an influence there

Eshly wrote:-Both rely on a very large degree of faith (belief without evidence)

This is not a personal attack on Eshly. It's just that this line caught my eye as it reflects what I imagine most people here think. Faith is a very important part of my life. I have nothing but admiration for people who have faith. I think it's something that needs defending.

First of all, the word faith is defined as: "Faith I 1. Confidence, reliance, trust. In early use, only with reference to religious objects, b Belief proceeding from reliance on testimony or authority 1551. 2.Theol. a. Belief in the truths of religion as contained in Holy Scripture or in the teaching of the Church. bSaving or justifying faith, as a conviction operative on the character and will; opp. to speculative faith. c.The spiritual apprehension of divine truths. Often ascribed to the exercise of a special faculty in man, or to supernatural illumination. ME" Shorter Oxford 1986 Vol 1 p 720

In the dictionary, the definition goes on, but I'm not going to quote the whole thing. Those of you who are interested will go and look it up. The underlining is my emphasis. "The spiritual apprehension of divine truths" does not imply irrationality to me. I would like to be somebody who has a direct apprehension of divine truths.

I'm not a Christian, I'm a Buddhist. If I was asked if I had faith in the efficacy of Buddhist practice I would have to answer in the affirmative. I would even go so far as to say that my faith is unshakeable. Doubt regarding Buddhist practice does not arise in my mindstream.

I suspect that the only reason that I'm a Buddhist over a Christian is that I don't really speak the language of personal creator gods, and I have close friends who are Buddhist so when I started to have "spiritual" experiences it was to the language of Buddhism I was exposed to. I imagine that if I had been schooled in the language of Christianity then I would have interpreted those experiences in that fashion.

I think we need to be very careful about belittling the beliefs of others. I don't believe in God, but I don't assume that I know what people mean when they speak about God. It's not a language I use. That does not mean that those people who do believe in God are not in fact believing in something very real. Something that has a profound effect on them.

Spiritual experiences are not something that can ever be proven, they can only be experienced. The same can be said regarding the efficacy of spiritual practice. I could say to you that the act of being aware of the breathing process can lead to great feeling of bliss and happiness and could lead to a state whereby you could be aware of the thoughts of others and there would only be one way that you could find out.

I have no doubt that there are people who have had profound spiritual experiences who are acting for the welfare of all beings working as psychics or mediums, just as there are charlatans.

Anyway, I'm beginning to ramble, probably best to stop now. Obviously all of the above represents my subjective opinion and should not be taken as an objective statement about the nature of reality.

That last post was an intelligent one. I am not sure that I agree with it but nevertheless it was intelligent and will give us all something to think about.

Gary: I am not an expert in Buddhism, but I think the fact you own a computer undermines it somewhat.

Faith is generally used as a word to describe something you believe but you cannot know, for example:

"How do you know he didn't sleep with her?"

"..Emm, I just took his word on faith."


And finally: No, we do not have to be careful about insulting the beliefs of others. Unless they are Muslim in which case we need to do it over the internet, because doing it in public gets you killed. But we can insult the Christians all we like, what are they going to do, hold a fate?

Ofcourse you need to critisize religions and their Gods. The pope is currantly in Britain and the UN had to recently make the Vatican a regocnised country in order to give him diplimatic immunity. Without it, he would have been arrested for perversion of the cause of justice and been given several years in jail. Unfortunetly justice never happens in this world.

You do need to openly critisize peoples thoughts, especially if they are dangerous, evil or stupid.

Eshly wrote:Gary: I am not an expert in Buddhism, but I think the fact you own a computer undermines it somewhat.

Don't let ignorance keep you from making judgment.

Moronic.

.robb. wrote:

Eshly wrote:Gary: I am not an expert in Buddhism, but I think the fact you own a computer undermines it somewhat.

Don't let ignorance keep you from making judgment.

Moronic.

Given that I've met real Buddhist peasents, and most "Buddhists" I find these days are very much not real. You can forgive my synasism.