starting with flourishes help...

Struggling with an effect? Any tips (without giving too much away!) you'd like to share?

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starting with flourishes help...

Postby balejben » Aug 9th, '04, 23:09



hey guys
i am wanting to start doing alot of flourishes with my routines but dont know where to start could u guys name a few that are good to learn plz..

and does anyone know where i can find a tutorial on the waterfall shuffle, i saw bran christian perform it it loosk great anything would be helpful thank you....


regards, ben :shock:

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Postby Captain Fantastic » Aug 9th, '04, 23:50

Try 'The art of card manipulation' videos or DVDs by Jeff McBride. These start with the basics and progress to the harder stuff throughout the series!! Another one to try is Jeff Sheridans DVD... Can't think what it's called at the moment as it's back home but still a few nice effects and very well taught.

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Postby bananafish » Aug 10th, '04, 09:28

Another one to try is Jeff Sheridans DVD


That would be "Volume 2 - Card Manipulation" of his "Genius at work" set. It has a lot of flourishes mixed with a lot of sleights.

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Postby Alan Jackson » Aug 10th, '04, 13:31

There are descriptions of flourishes in most standard books on cards. The Card College series has a good selection, the Royal Road to Card Magic has a few basic ones, and several are given in the Tarbell Course.

The definitive work is the Encyclopeadia of Card Flourishes.
Find out about it here:
http://www.flourishman.com/index.html

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Postby GoldFish » Aug 14th, '04, 20:40

I've just read a really interesting interview with the "Flourisher" De'vo, in this month's Genii Magazine (August 2004), and it really set me thinking about flourishes and magic. I would have to re-read the article to give a proper analysis of what he said but i would strongly suggest you popping out to your local magic shop or ordering a copy from an online dealer. In brief De'vo see's himself as a pure "flourisher" dealing solely with flourishes where as people such as Cap Casino or Jeff McBride are magicians performing flourishes. It may not seem like much of a distinction but when you see what a "flourisher" like De'vo is capable of you'll understand.

If you wish to learn pure flourishes I would suggest De'vo's DVD "Cradle to Grave". Personally I havn't seen the DVD but after reading the interview it is clear that De'vo will give a completely unique take on the whole idea of flourishes.

Also there are the two websites which might interest you (and if not the video on there are worth a look anyway):

www.handlordz.com
www.superhandz.com

I hope this has helped.


All the best


Fish

All the best,

Will Wood
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Postby Jing » Aug 14th, '04, 21:10

I find the Flourisher Vs Magicain debate really interesting. That's why i was asking about Genii, magazine, (gonna get it as a back isuue from their website.) Maybe it deserves it's very own topic. Anyway...

You must look at Emily's cup stacking on http://www.superhandz.com/
Just a quick warning, if you're standing up sit down... and if you're sitting down hold on to something... or you might fall off your chair... It's insane!!! INSANE!!!

Goldfish, you might be interested in this http://allmagic2.com/talkaboutmagic/

Click on 'Flourished'

I'd be interesting in the different opinions on this.. I.e where the line between magician and flourisher is and is it possible to cross it and come back...

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Postby Michael Jay » Aug 15th, '04, 00:52

A good resource book for card flourishes is Bill Tarr's "Now You See It, Now You Don't." Of course, it won't get anywhere near as indepth as the suggested material above, but it's still a good book to have in your library.

Jing wrote:I'd be interesting in the different opinions on this.. I.e where the line between magician and flourisher is and is it possible to cross it and come back...


This kind of eletist attitude simply drives me nuts. Flourishes are brought up and suddenly all the "serious" magicians start beating their breasts saying that the guys who do flourishes are jugglers (as if jugglers are just cheap, useless creatures).

Debate rages over whether a flourish or two should be thrown into magic, and if so, how much.

Gee, seems to me one of the greatest magicians was Slydini and it also seems to me that I recall him producing fans of cards from the air. I guess he's just some crummy juggler too.

Mike.

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Postby GoldFish » Aug 15th, '04, 12:22

Michael, I don't think Jing was trying to be elitist with what he said. Infact I can't even see where you got the idea that he was being elitist. Again, you seemed to have jumped the gun (no offense intended).

However, I totally aggree with you in what you said about elitism, flourishes and magic.

Yet the debate is inately circular; it will just go round and round forever.

However, a debate about Flourishes and Magic could provide some very interesting view points about how different performers mix/avoid the two.

Personally, I love flourishes. I think that if they are performed well they are beautiful to watch. However, I have yet to include a serious flourish section into any performance. I save my flourishes simply for showing off, and I'm not ashamed to say that :lol: because in my opinion that is what they are for; they are a intricate display of skill and dexterity, in exactly the same way that gymnastics are.

Just to clarify, I now view flourishes as so much more than simply a collection of cuts, fans, etc. These I use out of neccesity in my performances.

All the best,

Will Wood
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Postby MagicIain » Aug 15th, '04, 13:17

GoldFish wrote: in exactly the same way that gymnastics are.


:lol: But normally WITHOUT the leotard... :lol:

...thank God for the Olympics...

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Postby Michael Jay » Aug 15th, '04, 14:13

GF wrote:Again, you seemed to have jumped the gun (no offense intended).


I did? Again? Please point me in the direction, on this thread, where I've "jumped the gun." Somewhere else, maybe? Somewhere in the vast thousands of posts that I have on the internet, maybe? And explain to me that nobody else "jumps the gun," ever, and I may take it under advisement. You've never "jumped the gun" I assume...Before you "jump the gun" in response, understand that I'm not offended, so no offense was taken.

In any case, I don't see that I've jumped the gun, at all, in any way. Let me explain...

Jing wrote:I'd be interesting in the different opinions on this.. I.e where the line between magician and flourisher is and is it possible to cross it and come back...


I responded. If I "jumped the gun" it's because I honestly believed (and still do) that Jing wanted a spirited debate on this subject. If I'm wrong about that, then you are right and I did "jump the gun." If I am right, then I've simply started what Jing was requesting.

Edited in: Please note, I said, "This kind of eletist attitude simply drives me nuts." I did NOT say, "YOUR eletist attitude simply drives me nuts."

Mike.

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Postby magicdiscoman » Aug 15th, '04, 15:41

okey dokey my view on this thorny situation.
magic is all about flourishes just take a look at a lance burton dove routine and tell me were the flourish ends and the magic begins or a david copperfield show.
so why debate about adding flourishes to your magic routine when the masters have already shown us the way, magic is florish and flourish is magic and presentation is all.

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Postby Andy » Aug 15th, '04, 16:40

I found this on cuts and flourishes i found it really useful because I worked a lot of them out myself.

http://home.earthlink.net/~ocb1/cfotd.html

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Postby Jing » Aug 15th, '04, 19:40

Whoa, whoa, whoa, Sweet Child o' mine... Michael Jay/Goldfish No need to argue...

Although, i was just asking for opinions...I thought it might stir up some contarversy between Magicians and 'Pure Flourishers' I personally love my charliers and triple cuts and spring flourishes. I'd do the King Cobra, if i could.

I personally think that the way you hold the cards and shuffle them adds style to your magic. It helps you to control the audience's attention, even when you're doing something as regular as mixing the cards.

Th other side of the coin say flourishers should stick to flourishes and magicians should hold the deck clumsily to enhance the magic, i.e. "I'm cumsy yet the mafic still happens"

I definetly wouldn't think guys like Slydini, or Cardini or Jeff McBride were lesser magicians because they do flourishes, but I'm also asking does De'vo do ANY magic??? and if not should he be called a magician or a flourisher...

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Postby the_mog » Aug 15th, '04, 19:44

I'm pretty sure that De'vo DID do magic when he was younger but now purely does flourishes (sure i read this on handlordz.com)

Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music. - Kristian Wilson, Nintendo, Inc, 1989.. :mrgreen:
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Postby GoldFish » Aug 16th, '04, 21:47

the_mog wrote:I'm pretty sure that De'vo DID do magic when he was younger but now purely does flourishes (sure i read this on handlordz.com)


Tis true. He was talking about how the whole transition from magician to flourisher went for him in this interview I mentioned. It really is worth a read. I'll reread it and then try and sum up what he says in another post if that would be helpful?



MJ wrote:Jing wrote:
"I'd be interesting in the different opinions on this.. I.e where the line between magician and flourisher is and is it possible to cross it and come back..."


This kind of eletist attitude simply drives me nuts.


MJ wrote:If I "jumped the gun" it's because I honestly believed (and still do) that Jing wanted a spirited debate on this subject.


Sorry but to me it seems like those two statements contradict each other, but like I said, no offense intended. I wasn't implying that you were the only person on the face of the planet to jump the gun every so often, and if you truely did want to start a reasonable debate on the subject, so be it. It just struck me as a rather odd way of doing so.

Jing wrote:Whoa, whoa, whoa, Sweet Child o' mine...


I love that show. Pure genius.:wink: :D

All the best,

Will Wood
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