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On Halloween I worked at an event being run at a stately home. The stately home is open to visitors and is quite popular with tourists.

I was booked to appear at the event by an events company, who themselves had been hired by the stately home itself.

When sending in my invoice to the events company, I was informed by the events company that they would forward my invoice on to the stately home who would be paying me directly.

In mid-December I still hadn't been paid, so I contacted the events company. They said they would chase up the stately home for me. I also decided to contact the stately home myself. The stately home told me that the events company had submitted no invoice on my behalf.

Well, after much running around, I finally got hold of someone at the stately home who promised to get a cheque out to me immediately. This was last week and I still haven't received the cheque. I'm planning on hopefully scaring them into paying me by threatening a CCJ.

My question is: who is legally obliged to pay me? I rather think it is the events company themselves as they actually hired me to work at the event. Indeed I think the events company should have paid me directly, and then the stately home should have paid them.

I'd be obliged to anyone who knows more about the legality of this than me for any advice they may have. Many thanks in advance.

I am not an expert but I believe it would be the party that you have the contract with who should pay you.

Johnny Wizz wrote:I am not an expert but I believe it would be the party that you have the contract with who should pay you.

Seconded.

Paul,

Do you want to name and shame the Events Company? Just in case any others on here get events through them?

Richard

jacko wrote:Paul,

Do you want to name and shame the Events Company? Just in case any others on here get events through them?

Richard

I'd rather not at this mo. It's a company I do a lot of work with (or at least used to), and is not a company that any "mainstream" magicians would be booked for. To be honest this is the first time I've had such a problem with them, but I think this is down to the odd arrangement of the events company's client paying me (allegedly) directly.

Thanks for your help.

It's not really my area of law, but it would be a contractual matter. If the contract (whatever it consists of, it could be a series of emails or even a phone call) says that you should be paid by the stately home, then that's what it should be. Otherwise I'd say the events company are liable to pay as they hired you.

Not sure what the norm is for events companies and the like though, would it be normal for the events company's clients to pay entertainers (for lack of a better word) or the events company themselves?

Hi Paul

I see a lot of this kind of thing.
You should be paid by the events company, as they hired you; they will then in turn invoice on (with a mark up no doubt) the home.
What do you have in writing confirming your work; do you have a contract or any kind of order?
If you have something like this then a threat of a CCJ would be the way to go.

If you were paid by the home directly there's also an issue of potential false accounting. You would need to credit the events co and reinvoice the home, then need a remittance advice from the home advising the payment was a payment on account in relation to that invoice

Happy to discuss in more detail if you wish.

Hi Lawrence,

The events company is a company that I do (did) a lot of work for. We were on very friendly terms and normally the agreement to work for them came in the form of an email (which it was in this case) or verbally over the phone.

I've had no issues like this with them in the past (well, no more than you can expect). What's annoying is that the events company are blaming the stately home and the stately home are blaming the events company.

What's even more annoying is the lack of respect for me that it shows. This is what I do for a living. Doing gigs pays for food and shelter for my family. Yet neither of the companies involved seem willing to sort the issue out. They're happy to just pass the problem backwards and forwards, perhaps hoping that I'll just go away.

You need to find out what the contract said, and who it was with. If you and I enter into a contract, I cannot simply create a binding obligation that, say, you will be paid by Simon Cowell.

It sounds to me very likely that you were hired by the events company, but it is theoretically possible that they were acting as agents for whoever was in charge at the stately home, and therefore your contract is with the home.

However, I think Lawrence probably has it bang on.

I got caught that way. Did a gig in June, got paid on this Monday. One promoter hired me on behalf of another promotions company, and both passed the buck. Eventually I was ringing daily until the matter was sorted out. But I have learnt my lesson, and that's one client dropped.

I think you have a contract with the promoter rather than the stately home. Give them until the end of the week, then up the level of aggression in your contacts with them. But I would hold off on court proceedings until a last resort. I have done it in the past, but not often. And it destroys your relationship with the client.

Best of luck with it.

It could be that when the Stately Home said they'd send a cheque pronto, they meant that they have to send it to the Event organiser. As Tony says, apply plenty of pressure on them, remiond them that this isn't just a delayed cheque, it's the way you earn a living and, having performed at the gig, you need your money within 3 working days without fail. I guess it isn't easy to insist that for future bookings you get a cheque, or cash, on the night? When I did mobile Discos it was always agreed in advance in writing that terms were payment on the night.

same here cash in hand or no unpack, better still payment in advance ie allow 14 days for checks to clear.

your situation is sum what diferent to ours by nature of your work but still by now you should have some sort of backside cover.

I think threatening them with legal action is a plan, but I'm sure that you could threaten them with some kind of curse. If they've seen what you do, that might get the cheque books out...

Spoke to a person at the stately home today who has promised me faithfully that a cheque will be with me in the next couple of days. Apparently my invoice is due to be paid on the next "payment run".

A "payment run" (for those of you who may be wondering) is a phrase used by large companies to delay your payment for a few days with what seems like a genuine excuse. A "payment run" implies that the company only makes payments and issues cheques on certain days, and I will have to wait for the next "payment run" which is in a day or two.

However if the tax man turned up at the door and demanded a cheque for unpaid taxes, the company would probably find that their "payment run" was in fact right there & then.

I will keep you all updated as to if and when the "payment run" happens and my cheque eventually arrives through my letter box.

As an aside - I was informed that this is probably my own fault because I asked to be paid by cheque. If I had given them my bank details they would have paid me immediately via a bank transfer. Silly me. Now I understand - it's my fault for asking to be paid by a cheque.

If you had asked to be paid by BACS (i.e a normal bank transfer that takes 3 days) they would have said they did it, then you wait 3 or 4 days, they then blame the bank, then they do it again and again the bank "oddly" failed the transfer as they never really did it in the first place. When it gets to bad payers I ask for CHAPS transfer as that is to all intents and purpose immediate.

For certain companies I use a factoring service. I give the factor agent the invoice , they gave me 90% the same day. They then chase the client and would give me 7.5% later when they get paid and keep 2.5% for their fee (i would inflate my invoice 5% to cover such clients).
It's surprising how many bad payers start calling you to beg to get the factoring company off their back as they will pursue their side of the deal without fail or mercy 24/7 as soon as you give them the paperwork. You can plead ignorance and say its not your fault as you factor your invoices. Most big companies know exactly what that means and put your right at the top of the queue so they can avoid the hassle. I had one nice experience once when a TV company I worked for told me that my invoices would have to wait 2-3 months to pay as the director was in mexico running a US based quiz show. Strangely he got called in the middle of the night and managed to fax his signature back to pay when the court order turned up in the office and he had 24hrs to get to court or else. I was though able to remain safe and sweet and detached from the "drama" as it wasnt my fault but the bad factoring company