talkmagic.co.uk

Hi all,

Am just looking for some advice and whether its worth pursuing my work in card magic.
Basically, I have small-ish hands. They arent tiny but they arent bin-lids. With a flat hand, i can fit a poker-sized bicycle card in a palm - just but its there isnt much room for manouver.
So on to the issue. All comments about practice aside, I am concerned that my smaller hands are really stopping me getting to grips with any of the passes available, be it based on the classic pass or the Hermann.
Without giving spoilers, the problem seems to be that there isnt enough room to allow the vertical portion to sit comfortably while dealing with the horizontal portion. I have to lift this horizontal part so high that i cannot conceal the move.

Is there anything that I can look to do or do I just accept that the pass is something i am going to have to live without and thus card effects are drastically limited for me?

Any advice is much appreciated. thanks.

They aren't drastically limited-far from it. It probably isn't your hand size thats the problem anyway though so don't worry about that. Max Malini had quite small hands (or so I read in a book), and yet it never stopped him becoming successful! Maybe some of the more experienced members on here will be able to give you some advice on the pass (I'm still learning so can't really help).

I'm pretty sure that your hands are bigger than mine. I don't think the size of your hands will cause you too much of a problem, I can't palm a card without something sticking out somewhere.

Have a look at the angle you're holding your hand, a slight tilt can hide quite a bit. Also remember that your slights needn't be totally invisible, use some misdirection and you can get away with a lot.

Just because you can't do a Pass doesn't mean you should abandon card magic.

First off there are variations on the pass, such as one taught by Darwin Ortiz (I think i saw it on "Scams and fantasies DVD) where you only need to cover about half the deck with your hand, so small hands shouldn't be a problem.

Secondly, if you can't do the pass at all then that's fine, do without. There are thousands if not millions of great effects you can learn without the pass. I spent a long time learning the pass and quite honestly never use it.

There are effects which use the pass which can be done using other methods entirely to achieve the same result. So you can go and learn other moves to substitute for the pass and this is just my own opinion, but being that they do the same job, the pass seems like more trouble than its worth.

I suppose my opinion is that the pass is "A move for magicians" meaning its something to show off to other magicians, you have the skill to do a perfect pass, but a spec should never know you done anything at all, so why not do an easier move to achieve the same result?


Don't be disheartened with card magic, just pick up some good books (which there are countless threads suggesting excellent books) and learn some amazing card magic that doesn't need a pass

Many thanks - I guess it may be confidence and yet more practice - what looks a bit ropey to me may be ok from the audience view.

Film yourself and watch it back.

Unless you're practising in front of a mirror you're looking down at your hands, a completely different exposed view than what an audience would see.

That being said an audience shouldn't even be looking at your hands during a pass, that's where your misdirection skills come into play

Thanks mrz0mbie, thats really great advice. much appreciated

Hand size is often - erroniously - given as a reason not to learn the pass. With correct instruction there are several passes that are usable with less than large hands.

If things get too difficult you can always use bridge sized cards - real people won't know the difference and things are easier for smaller people. My daughter, who is 11, has a couple of packs of bridge sized bikes which are the same quality as the poker sized cards.

I wrote a fairly well received ebook on the pass - you can read the reviews and see a clip at www.virtualmagicshow.com

Take care, Ian

IanKendall wrote:see a clip at www.virtualmagicshow.com

That looks fantastic!
T.

As has been stated Bridge cards could work. I myself have smaller than average hands & I use the pass every now & then. To be honest I normally try to avoid it but used properly no one will see. It could be that it's misdirection you are lacking. If the participants are look elsewhere then there's no heat on your hands. This is what I do. Also, when you're practising in the mirror, you are actively looking for the pass movement so you know where to look & when.

Trust me, use the pass at the right time & no one will know, use it sparingly & mix it up with other controls. Oh yeah & practice practice practice

To be honest, I have my doubts as to whether you can totally conceal a pass, or whether it is something that can be 'invisible', despite what some magicians claim. It's something that relies on misdirection, as the hands can never be completely stationary when its executed. I think it's something that if you're looking out for it, you'll notice it. My advice would be to use misdirection, and concentrating on getting the pass smooth and noiseless rather than extremely fast. I am fairly new to magic, so perhaps some of the more experienced members might be able to offer you some advice. Hope this helps anyway.

IanKendall wrote:I wrote a fairly well received ebook on the pass - you can read the reviews and see a clip at www.virtualmagicshow.com

I do believe the discovery of this site is going to cause some problems for my bank balance!

I am relieved to know that there is still plenty you can do without being able to do the pass as I too have very small hands.

The Pass is NOT the be-all and end-all of card magic. In fact, although I can do it (and I have small hands), I never use it. If you don't know, I've created hundreds of tricks (which I perform professionally) since the late 70's and all are pass-free. But, if you do use the pass - hand size is immaterial; it's 80% misdirection and timing. But, don't give up magic just because you can't do the pass. That'd be like not eating food cos you don't like the colour of the dishes it's served on!

Paul Gordon

My pass is invisible to me in the mirror and on webcam but my gf spots it everytime i do it - however, a piece of advice i read in Mark Wilsons book says that if you ask someone a question and look them in the eye right before you do the move, it distracts them enough so that they dont notice it.

Misdirection seems to be the key if you dont want people to spot your moves - i would imagine that in a group however distracting multiple participants at once is going to be harder. Maybe an amusing "i could do with an assistant - look at your mate and picture him in a lovely magicians assistants frock" ?

I seriously thought my hands are too small for a charlier cut and definitely too small for a pass. This almost put me off off many sleights etc but luckily I decided to pursue practising and its just amazing how soon after I realised charlier cut has nothing to do with how big your hands are and soon after I was practising invisible pass which is pretty decent now. I still have to be careful with my angles otherwise I flash but with a little misdirection etc I can get away with it and use it a lot too.

Also for palming I can just BARELY cover a poker sized card with my hand and I still cant get one handed top palm right there's always lots sticking out but I have still used it with the right angle. Its just me tho. My one handed top palm is so not perfect but I can still use it at the right moment from the right angle.

So yeah my point is that that where there is will there is a way. You small hands wont be a disadvantage in fact maybe for some sleights/tricks it can be a huge advantage too. I'm proud of my small hands plus when you got small hands people propably (?) dont tend to suspect you're hiding something in them.