talkmagic.co.uk

Seems that never too long goes by before we see this type of thread appear in some form.

"Hi, I am looking to put on an evening of magic, I want to showcase the best magical talents ever seen. PS, no payment."

Or something along those lines?


Are people reaching above their station by hiring out the Albert Hall and only charging 5 pound a ticket? Or is there something I am missing here.

There are so many amateur magicians out there desperate to get exposure and the chance to perform in front of a real audience, promoters know that they can get away without paying them. It's much the same situation as with comedians.

In the early days we did a few unpaid cabarets, and they genuinely are good for working in material and getting experience in front of the crowd, but really you have to think "If this person can't afford to pay their entertainment a single penny, how good a cabaret is it really going to be?"...

I'm equally concerned at the expectation that Magicians especially will work for nothing to get that great god 'experience' - I've dealt with one post today and I daresay there will be others. The point we make here on TM is that any performer is worth being paid - how much or how little is open to negotiation but there should always be the expectation that a fee and expenses if appropriate will be paid. Sometimes the offer of ‘free drinks’ is made – I assume then that the brewery or whoever are providing them for free? I equally assume that rent, rates, income tax, customs duty, electricity, water, gas etc are also being donated. If not, and the suppliers expect to be paid, then the performers should be paid as well.

As someone who made one of these posts...

I made it because I wanted to do something for comic relief (I guess everyone has their chosen charity they try to raise money or give money to, that's mine) - I wasn't expecting much but it was an idea to raise a couple of quid (or at least, a couple of quid more than I will donate myself)

I couldn't offer payment because I simply couldn't afford to. I wasn't getting any money for it myself, it wasn't affiliated with the charity (just raising money for it) so couldn't get expenses from them (it's worth noting that comic relief pay their expenses solely from gift aid and bank interest - every penny that's donated goes to good causes). So if anything I would probably have ended up being out of pocket if I had to pay for anything

So there we have it. I wasn't relying on goodwill or expecting anything - I was trying to organise something where magicians (pro or amateur) could do something to raise money for charity, if they wanted to. I deliberately didn't play the "it's for experience" because we get it a lot in the industry I'm in (web development) - and I know how irritating it can be

And because it almost certainly is not for experience. They'd probably have not nothing out of it except a way to raise money for charity

kolm wrote:As someone who made one of these posts...

Actually you didn't! Apart from your being a long standing member who we know and trust, right from the start your post explained the whys and wherefores and it was clear that this was a charity event and performers woild get involved out of the goodness of their hearts. On that basis anyone who wanted to get involved knew the arrangements. The big difference between your post and the 'others' is that they just breeze in and expect magicians to be interested in performing for nothing as though that's a wonderful offer to make! Would they approach a painter and decorator and aks him to paint their house for nothing, or an electrician to rewire the place for zilch - just for 'experience'? Methinks not! Doing freebies and charity shows is cetainly an excellent way of gaining experience but commercial organisations asking for free performances isn't quite so wonderful.

Oh yeah, I completely agree there's nothing more irritating than asking for commercial work for free! Especially in the post earlier today, when they're a bar and are earning money so can afford to pay for the entertainment!

I just pointed out my side of things, why sometimes charity gigs are non-paying (But again, if it's the charity organising the gig themselves they should have the money for expenses...)

I contacted Kolm after her post because of what she wanted to achieve. It leaves a bitter taste ion my mouth when I hear people say do this "for experience" They are hoping to make a profit from the event so should be willing to put their hands in their pockets and pay the entertainers. What message are they sending out, they do not even have faith in promoting their event, or are extremely greedy.

I have done free work to gain experience and build up my confidence. That was my decision and I approached the people I wanted to do it for.

Nic Castle wrote: I have done free work to gain experience and build up my confidence. That was my decision and I approached the people I wanted to do it for.

Well put Sir!

Unless they are a charity I dont see why anyone would give a free show unless as mentioned they are looking to gain fame for a free chance to show off.

The other thing I have noticed in some of these cases is the persons hosting usually are selling tickets to an event and if they are not a charity than you are making them money for free which if thats your thing that you go ahead.

If they dont like your prices than dont preform that simple. With the cost of magic as a hobby or profesional you need to make some money back for all that money spent no?

Web Designers get this a lot in some parts of the world.

"But your an Artist, don't you love your Art? Surely that's worth more to you than money?"

Amusing read: http://clientsfromhell.net/

When I can pay the gas and electricity bills etc with 'art' or Tesco are happy to take 'experience' at the checkouts then I'll change my opinion !

Mandrake wrote:or Tesco are happy to take 'experience' at the checkouts

I'm so trying that next time

"What you want me to pay? But you just had the experience of serving me! It can go onto your CV! I'll tell all my friends how great you were!"

= damn nearly choked on me cocoa =

I laughed so hard my coke went up my nose!

No wait that sounds really wrong!