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Hello...

I'm currently pulling my hair out as there's something I've forgotten and I'm hoping someone on here can point me in the right direction to remembering.

There was a routine I read about a few years ago that I want to revisit, but I can't remember the method properly and can't remember for the life of me where I read it. I spent hours awake last night scouring books and pdf's but couldn't find it. I was hoping that I could describe what I remember of the routine and someone could tell me the name of the effect so I can look it up.

Basically it runs something like this: There are five cups (or cards or whatever) in front of the spec and they place an object under one or choose one. A number is chosen by the spec and they move a certain number of cups from the left hand end to the right hand end (or vice versa I can't remember exactly). It works out that whatever number they chose their chosen cup / object will always end up in the same position in the row of objects so the performer can magically predict the right one. That's about all I can remember!

I know this is really vague but I hope someone gets the gist of what I'm on about and can help me.

Thanks!

I don't know where you learned this, but do you by any chance own any books or DVDs by Aldo Colombini (and/or his wife)? I ask this, because I know of one marketed effect by them that uses the same principle. However, I don't think that's where you learned it from, because their trick uses a very distinctive set of props!

I am sure that this (pretty much) self-working trick is probably in a lot of older magic books, possibly one or more of the Karl Fulves books.

So, try Fulves, Colombini and perhaps any general magic books you might have, especailly ones aimed at beginners or kids (even though I think this principle is actually very good, I suspect many will dismiss it).

It sounds vaguely similar to the Quinta Force in Phill Smith's book Yokai (and discussed further in Mokele).

Basically, five items are laid in a line and then the spectator names any largeish number. The items are fairly counted back and forth, and the count ends on the force item. The spectator doesn't choose an item beforehand, though -- it's a straight force.

I'm thinking Banachek, for some reason.
T.

I'll set it out as I remember it.

Let's say that you have five cups. The spectator is to hide a small object under one of the cups and remember the number at which the object is placed. For example, if he chooses to place the object under the first cup from the left (as he looks at the row), he is to think of "1".

This is, of course, done with the performer looking away.

The magician now asks for the spectator to make things harder by moving the cups around. If he is thinking of "1", he is to move the first cup to the end of the line. If he is thinking "2", he moves the first cup, then the second cup, from the front of the row to the back. The magician demonstrates how this would look by moving the first couple of cups.

The performer again looks away while the spectator moves the cups. When he turns back, he knows exactly where the hidden object can be found.

Mods: This is borderline exposure. It is, however, a description of exactly what happens in the performance, and what the spectator will see and hear. Perhaps if this suffices for EXD's purposes, he could post to that effect, and then my response can be trimmed down a little.

By the way, I suspect your reference to "prediction" was just a slightly sloppy use of terminology. The effect is, in my opinion, much weaker as a prediction, and much better if the performer divines where the object is hidden.

May I ask what it is you are trying to accomplish in all of this. Because if you just want to show you know which cup the object is under then this sounds like a particularly convoluted way to do it. I have not seen it in performance so I may be wrong.

Have you seen the effect Killer Red Caps?

5 or 6 caps are open side down on the table. The caps look like the tops of a can of WD40 can or really any smaller sized spray paint can top. Magician turns away, spectator puts a coin or something under one of the caps. Caps can be moved around or not, makes no difference. Magician turns around, without any words spoken the magician knows exactly which cap the object is under.

All the caps are identical, no hidden marks if that is what you are thinking. All the caps are examinable. Nothing is added or taken away. No math, no questions.

The effect is not my style so I don't perform it, but I've demonstrated it quite a bit and almost every demo resulted in a sale.

The issue I had with it is that it doesn't 'fit' into anything else I do, so for me it was more of a bar stunt a stand alone type of affair. I'm sure it could be put into a routine I'm just not sure what type.

I remember what Bob Cassidy said about Killer Red Caps.

Compared to some tricks, I don't think the procedure involved is that long, or that convoluted. I do, however, thing it might be strengthened by combining it with a second technique for achieving the same result.

sorry, but the best and oldest version of this is the Koran's note under cup.
done with fewer cups its impromptu, gaff free, and its easy to routine in a serial number prediction as a kicker ending.

EXD wrote:
I'm currently pulling my hair out as there's something I've forgotten

to post in the introductions area?

Wow! Thanks for all the helpful replies. I have some idea of where to go and look now. I have a load of old magic literature in storage and have a feeling I'll find it amongst all that. At least I know what names to look for now.

@Part-Timer: Thanks for that description. That sound basically like what I'm looking for. Feel free to edit down your post if you're worried about exposure.

May I ask what it is you are trying to accomplish in all of this. Because if you just want to show you know which cup the object is under then this sounds like a particularly convoluted way to do it.

I was thinking about it more from a conceptual point of view than a performance one. I like to take methods and pull the logic apart and try and build on them. You're probably right that it's a convoluted method but it was just driving me crazy that I couldn't remember it!

to post in the introductions area?

Duly noted

I was in a bit of a rush to get out of the house when I posted earlier but I will head over there now and introduce myself.

Thanks again to all of you who've replied.

Glad to be of assistance. If the moderators are happy with my post, so am I.