talkmagic.co.uk

While browsing the Interwebs i came across this guy preforming Mentalism, obviously "inspired" by the work of Derren Brown:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5EnMCablE4

Almost identical to the opening routine in one of Derren's stage shows!

His version of Oddball is identical too. I'm almost impressed by how he has managed to recreate the routines in their entirety. That must take a lot of work...

I would be the first to step forwards and defend the guy.

He is on stage, his first stage show, and he is using other routines. I know that I used other people's routines as well as my own in my first ever theatre show. In the stage jobs I have done since it is normally my own material, but more often that not the first show can be just to get to grips with stage and how it works when performing alone for a loooonnnnggggg period of time. I remember mine was over 2 hours - no small feat!

The main mistake here I believe was putting it on youtube!

I do agree however, that if he were to only perform Derren's stuff in the future and not to develop into his own performing style, then yes, that could be considered wrong

Maybe I am wrong, but this opening routine isnt an invention of derrens. It uses existing forces, and to that extent we shouldnt have a go at the guy for doing the effects. And, i cant say that i looked at the guy and thought of Derren, As Chris says above, the thing he did wrong was putting this on line. That, and having his mother film it, gusshing over loudly, and gasping orgazmicaly, like Sally in the delli.

The only downside really is that he used exact lines from the show......but we are all guilty of nicking a line or two I am sure....

Let he throw the first stone and all that...

Its just part of what the guy is.

His user name is LightTakayama.. so he likes Cyril. He does a c*** (not the best) levitaion, a-la Chris Angel, ( although when angel does it, you dont get the free exposure shadow thrown in)

And he's lifting Derrens lines.


Says a lot about him dunnit?

daleshrimpton wrote:Says a lot about him dunnit?

Now what I am about to say may be just an opinion, but it is the right one

haha, I jest

Either way, I think you are being too harsh on the boy. He obviously had the gonads to go up, alone, and do what appears to be a fairly long show, in front of a fairly big audience. No it isn't quite like the size of the theatre I was in (plug plug ) This is however, more than the majority of magicians on this forum, let alone in existence, would ever do. Cut him a bit of slack at least

so have I Chris.

And, none of my material was taken from others.

So in a way, That is no excuse.

Once again, I disagree

I may be playing devil's advocate here, and I don't believe that he was entirely in the right lifting it word for word, but I still believe that people are being slightly harsh on him.

Are you saying that every single thing you perform is your own? Or are you saying that you haven't been influenced by other performers you have seen? Maybe nicking a line here, a presentation there, an idea over there...

I'm not saying that it is wrong to be influenced by other people's routines...I know I have performed Paul Brook's "Good Vibrations" in front of over 100 people.....I have a routine created by Chris on the forum which I am using to close a stage gig this saturday in front of 400 odd people...I'm not claiming them as my own original piece.

If I posted up a video of me performing Good Vibrations as depitcted in the manuscript is that a bad thing? Would I be told that I was unoriginal?

No I'm not saying that he was in the right taking the whole routine word for word, but I know that I have performed a similar routine before, with a prediction left centre stage and some predictions in it whilst offstage talking through a microphone......am I now to be told that I was wrong to do so?

I should hope not, because I at least went out and did it - just like he did! You can't slate him for doing what seems to be a damn successful show, on his own, on stage, in front of a big audience. You just can't!!! It's just WRONG to do so, surely!!!

Are you saying that every single thing you perform is your own? Or are you saying that you haven't been influenced by other performers you have seen? Maybe nicking a line here, a presentation there, an idea over there...

That is more than one question, but a blanket answer to it is... yes.

Sure everybody is influenced by other performers, but most of my personal influences are not magicians. most of them are not even alive these days. Indeed, the majority of my audience handling material, comes from Pantos i have seen or directed, or been in, and relatives. several of whom can tell a grest story.

and those magician influences there are, have not influenced my choice of patter, or effects. That is completely my own. Things that can be picked up and used, could be odd things, like how to handle spectators, how to talk to an audience, stage deportment.. those things that make you Likeable to an audience.

Its the same as hearing somebody tell a joke. If you like that joke, you will never be able to tell that joke to an audience, unless you change its pace to suit your style.

If I posted up a video of me performing Good Vibrations as depitcted in the manuscript is that a bad thing? Would I be told that I was unoriginal?

no.. but it would show a lack of imagination, and that is one thing we should all strive to use.

Interesting discussion. I'm honestly not sure where I stand on this.

Good on the kid for standing up and doing a show. Plenty of other people couldn't do the same - and he really does pull it off well. I also genuinely believe that one of the best ways of learning when you are starting out is by learning and emulating the styles of other magicians.

But if the kid did his second show as an exact clone of Derren's material, would that then be wrong? How about his third? At what point does a magician stop being an enthusiastic learner and become a tribute act?

Well, his responses to very legitimate criticisms on his other videos don't really make him out to be respectable...

Serendipity wrote:Interesting discussion. I'm honestly not sure where I stand on this.

Good on the kid for standing up and doing a show. Plenty of other people couldn't do the same - and he really does pull it off well. I also genuinely believe that one of the best ways of learning when you are starting out is by learning and emulating the styles of other magicians.

But if the kid did his second show as an exact clone of Derren's material, would that then be wrong? How about his third? At what point does a magician stop being an enthusiastic learner and become a tribute act?

And that is exactly the point I am trying to say. Very few people actually have the balls to stand up and perform as he has done.

That is also the reason why I said if he were to do it again, in as similar a way as he has done now, then it would probably be considered a little more wrong...

On the flip side of the coin however, I keep thinking.....it isn't hurting anybody is it? I mean.....who is it really seriously hurting? He is enjoying it, the audience are enjoying it...as long as he keeps the vids to himself rather than the public domain for slaughter by other (some of which are jealous) magicians, is it such a bad thing at all?

Yes we would like to encourage uniqueness, yes we want to encourage spontaneouity...

but f*ck it...good on the kid, and I challenge anybody who slates him to put on their own 2 hour stage show in a theatre, without any help or feedback from any other magicians, using no effects that are adapted or borrowed from any other performer, and call it a success.

I'm not saying it cannot be done obviously - Mr Serendipity sir, you are an example to use there...but damn it you can also back me up when I say that it is bloody difficult to do! Especially by yourself!

Leave the kid be. He has done more than the majority of magicians out there by just getting his ass onto a stage in front of a big audience.

sleightlycrazy wrote:Well, his responses to very legitimate criticisms on his other videos don't really make him out to be respectable...

I haven't looked at the responses...I'm purely going by what is on this thread