talkmagic.co.uk

This is a bit of a rant but I felt I should share my thoughts.

I'd been in talks with the owner of a local pub about performing some walk about magic at a summer festival that they are holding in two weeks time. They were keen to have me perform and I was very happy to do the gig because the pub is supporting my local economy. It finally got to the matter of my fee; they'd asked me to do two hours of walk about, for which I charge £200 (£150 for first hour and £50 an hour after that) upon telling them this, the owner sent me the following email...

Jake,

I'm afraid I wasn't aware the cost would be so excessive, with also having a live band playing at a simliar cost, I would not be able to justify to the business owner this kind of outgoing for one day, I must apologise for this, I should not have assumed it would be cheaper. I'm going to have to cancel for that weekend sorry.

David

I don't know why, because I've been turned down from gigs before, but I was really annoyed that he assumed that I would be cheap. I think people think of us as a form of entertainer who is less mainstream and therefore less expensive, and I'm sorry, but this is simply not the case!

I think my prices are fair and 'David' will get what he pays for if he hires someone else who will work for £20, namely a child with a Marvin's Magic set!

Am I over-reacting?

Not over recting at all! See the similar rants posted in the Miscellaneous and Gigs and Jobs Available sections where so-called intelligent people immediately assume that magicians will work for 'the experience'. I would say more but it doesn't do my blood pressure any good at all.....

A friend of mine wanted me to go to his wedding, from the church until the last dance, and to be on hand to perform for the whole time.

I said £500.

He said, "Yeah, but you get fed at the reception!"

We don't speak much now...

Not overreacting at all! I get this all the time and have to firm with them I will not sell myself or my art short by working for low fees (unless it is a good charity). People need to know that the fee that Edantes quoted is cheap!

I'll throw in a contrary opinion. Does a strolling magician provide the same value as a live band? It's not just a question of what we are worth; it's a question of what we are competing with.

What have you done with the real Tony?

It's said (I have no idea where) that if 15% of your potential clients think your prices are too high, then you're doing OK.

I guess some people will just expect cheap rates, or just don't have the money.

If you want, you can do what I do: when I think a potential client doesn't have enough money, I send them the original price offer with a cut of 10-30%. I do this mostly with public schools, since they don't have much money. That way I get to keep my dignity, do the gig and keep demanding a large sum for other events.

Stephen Ward wrote:Not overreacting at all! I get this all the time and have to firm with them I will not sell myself or my art short by working for low fees (unless it is a good charity). People need to know that the fee that Edantes quoted is cheap!

My thoughts exactly! I consider my charge for this gig was a bargain for the pub and if they think that I'm expensive then maybe they should try looking for someone cheaper...not going to find anyone methinks.

A live band will play in a pub for £200 - £300. That might be split between five people who've lugged loads of heavy gear into the pub, set up at 7pm and been there until closing time. If that's what the landlord is used to then your fee will seem high, even though it isn't.

Just for comparison, I've played in various "function" bands - and the price ranges are £500-£850 for a decent 4 or 5 piece "standard" covers band (playing for 2-3 hours and providing all their own equipment) right up to around the £1500 mark for something a little larger and different (eg: 7-9 piece swing band). This is probably more akin to weddings than pubs.

The 2-3 hours are the performance time - then there's the load-in / setup (allow at least 1 hour) and the breakdown (around 30 mins)... and then there's the waiting around between setting up and actually playing!

I won't even start with the logistics of getting a bunch of musicians and the necessary equipment to the same place for a specific time.

I'm considering turning the "hanging around" time between setup and performance into a magic walk-around act... which I will bill independently!

lets see I pay public liability like a band, my magic props cost equaly as much as a bands pa system (not including my pa system for discos), we put in the same hours honing our skills with our instruments and performance tenique plus I have to lugg around a performance table and props on top of my disco rig so pay me the same.
if I'm doing walkaround most of the above aplies so I'll take half so £150 is a fair rate of pay, just point thart out to a pub landlord next time they show an interest before you quote them a price.

Like any selling....
When they start talking about "price" and "cost", you need to be able to explain the "value" you bring, or they will "outsource" to an offshore company, (which in effect they have done).
Re-frame the discussion to the VALUE you bring, but this requires business skills, not reading Mark Wilson and hours in front of the bedroom mirror.
Bruce

i agree with everything everybody has said.But one question..

how local was this local pub?


Is it your local? I only ask, because its often a good idea to keep the local landlords sweet, by offering them a special deal.

If that pub was like one of the pubs in my village, its where the local parish council drinks.. which means potential local gigs at full price.

( and at least a pint or two now and again)

Edantes wrote:
Am I over-reacting?

In my opinion you are over-reacting a little - your prices are fair, and you just have to be able to walk away without worrying so much from some gigs...
Stick to your guns - you're not over charging that's for sure.
Michael Ammar wrote some good stuff on the business side of magic in his book 'The Magic of Michael Ammar'...
This might help you to charge even more, and not loose gigs at all...
It helped me alot.

Dale,

The pub in question isn't where I normally drink, it's just a little too far out of the way of where I live. However, you make a good point, the pub is in my local area and it does serve a local clientel - thanks for the advice