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Hi,

I was watching Dynamo recently and noticed that he was performing the sort of mindreading that Derren Brown does; that is, working out the place or object of which a spectator is thinking without billets, s**** w******, etc. If these spectators aren't stooges, then surely there must be a book or something which teaches these skills. I was hoping that it might be taught in 13 Steps to Mentalism, but it isn't. Could anybody give me any advice on this?

Thanks very much,

cc100

Yes and no...

There are way to do 'naked mentalism' (sure you can find the main book on the subject) and there are also plenty of linguistic things that you can use, but I don't think you'd really like them unless you're happy to be wrong some of the time...

However, I strongly suspect that Dynamo's effects are very well edited to remove any billets or pre-show. I'd also suspect the same with DB, his live shows have a lot less of that kind of thing...

Yeah that's a very good point kartoffelngeist. I was hoping there was a way in which it could be done, but as you say, editing on TV tends to obscure the methods used. I'll definitely check out that book though. Thanks for the help.

The rule of thumb with Dynamo is that you are not watching a "fair" representation of the effect. Very different if you were there (and not in on it!)

Naked Mentalism is by Tomo from the boards btw, it's an incredibly good concept.

It's also worth looking in to some of Bill Dekel's stuff. Mindcraft: Preceptions has some great ideas in it (and some rubbish too), but it can be nicely coupled with Naked Mentalism to expand the options significantly. I'd definitely recommend it for starting out in this kind of thing.

I'd also be sure not to write off billets, as long as you can justify writing it down and not make them the focus of the effect. Corinda's 3 little questions is a good example, the focus needs to be on you answering the questions that the spec wants answers to, not divining what is written on the billets, you just check what the question out of curiosity. You know the answer through your psychic abilities (yeah, I said it...) so you'd want to know what the question was and see how well you did answering it. It's only natural.

Derren Brown predicted the lottery results. Or, as David Mitchell later said on Mock the Week - he told us the lottery results after they were drawn. But that's not what people say. They say "Derren Brown predicted the lottery results!".

Billets have a similar function.

cc100 wrote:Hi, Could anybody give me any advice on this?cc100

Just subscribe to the Scientific Jounals like New Scientist. Every week or at least month they have some new angle on things that can be used in Naked mentalism or whatever you call it. even Psychology Today on occasion has some good items

Its a good starting point and you can bet your house that the top guys are tuning in to the same sources. Why wouldnt they

.

In Pure Effect and Absolute Magic Derren talks about playing the odds and taking full advantage of any coincidences that occur. With a bit of work you can have a huge number of "reveals" on hand and when one hits people will be amazed, and BTW some of this is in 13 Steps and PMM if you search around a bit...

Maybe you should spend time studying force techniques if you're after predicting objects impromptu. The PATEO and equivoque forces being the main ones. I recommend Docc Hilford's E'voque available in his ebook collection the golden dragon. Annemann's 202 methods of forcing has gems in. Lewis Jones encyclopaedia of impromptu forces has been recommended before as an update to 202 methods of forcing. I suspect these methods may still disappoint you, but they are the easiest to learn (although hard to do well) and can be very deceptive.


http://www.docchilfordproducts.com/goldendragon/

Joshua Quinn has a great "Deck-quivoque" routine in his Paralies book which lets you direct someone to think of one specific card in a very convincing fashion. Highly recommended and propless.

Anyone skilled as a Reader can accomplish the kinds of things being asked about, this would include those of us that have worked on all facets of Ideomotor influences; not just Muscle Reading but Body Reading -- watching the eyes, feet, general body language -- all of these things can lead you toward the answers you are looking for without any kind of obvious pumping and more importantly, without any level of obviously contact or action (it's far cleaner than that -- think of it as a game of Poker).

I should ad that IF others in a group know about the information, a good Body Reader will be paying attention to them as well. Jerome Finley goes into some detail about this in his THOUGHT CHANNEL series and a bit more in a new book that's about to be released.

Fact is, there are and have been a collection of ways by which to accomplish this level of revelation and most all of it can be found in Corinda believe it or not. It's our personal perspective that gets a bit screwy in that we may know technically, what someone is doing and yet, not recognize it because of how they use it. Too, when it comes to conversational tactics like Pacing & Leading or certain Ericksonian methods, it is we that get caught-up in the illusion simply because we are looking way too hard when it comes to discovering "the trick" rather than seeing things as they actually are. It's quite difficult to segregate the two at times.

The Bottom Line is however, there are dozens if not hundreds of acts past & present that can work "nude". I'll not state anything beyond that.

I think that 'body reading' is probably the skill I meant. As you quite rightly said Craig, it is difficult to judge exactly how much of the method can be attributed to body reading, as often other mentalist techniques are used under the guise of body reading. However, I am sure that this skill is genuine and that there must be books and things that teach it. I saw Derren Brown's Enigma show live, and there was a part where he worked out a child's past holiday destination. Derren said 'You have the colour black in your mind', which the boy did (he was thinking of 'black runs'; a skiing term apparently). I can't think of any way he did this other than by body reading. My post was mainly concerned with learning more about this, as I was slightly disappointed that the subject wasn't touched on that much in 13 Steps to Mentalism (which describes muscle reading, but not really body reading).

Thanks for all the suggestions on books everyone.

grant_m23 wrote:The rule of thumb with Dynamo is that you are not watching a "fair" representation of the effect. Very different if you were there (and not in on it!)

like his "dissappearing tattoo" he did..... or "moving tan line" the people he used as stooges were more blatant than a fox in a chicken coup wearing a turkey outfit..... the moving tan line girl had one sleeve fully rolled up and the other where he moved the tan line to was all crinkled where it had been rolled up before dynamo called her over!!!

god that kid annnoys me.....

but as far as his pure mentalism goes i have to agree with most others, im not a mentalist guy but id have to say there is some set-up and stoogery involved!!!

cc100 wrote:I think that 'body reading' is probably the skill I meant. As you quite rightly said Craig, it is difficult to judge exactly how much of the method can be attributed to body reading, as often other mentalist techniques are used under the guise of body reading. However, I am sure that this skill is genuine and that there must be books and things that teach it. I saw Derren Brown's Enigma show live, and there was a part where he worked out a child's past holiday destination. Derren said 'You have the colour black in your mind', which the boy did (he was thinking of 'black runs'; a skiing term apparently). I can't think of any way he did this other than by body reading. My post was mainly concerned with learning more about this, as I was slightly disappointed that the subject wasn't touched on that much in 13 Steps to Mentalism (which describes muscle reading, but not really body reading).

Thanks for all the suggestions on books everyone.

Incorrect - it is in 13 steps. Step 2 I believe!

You're misremembering the effect - I can 100% tell you he used a billet switch - the switch he used inspired one of my most performed stage routines!

Though that in itself tells you how powerful billet routines are when presented properly!

Beardy wrote:

cc100 wrote:I think that 'body reading' is probably the skill I meant. As you quite rightly said Craig, it is difficult to judge exactly how much of the method can be attributed to body reading, as often other mentalist techniques are used under the guise of body reading. However, I am sure that this skill is genuine and that there must be books and things that teach it. I saw Derren Brown's Enigma show live, and there was a part where he worked out a child's past holiday destination. Derren said 'You have the colour black in your mind', which the boy did (he was thinking of 'black runs'; a skiing term apparently). I can't think of any way he did this other than by body reading. My post was mainly concerned with learning more about this, as I was slightly disappointed that the subject wasn't touched on that much in 13 Steps to Mentalism (which describes muscle reading, but not really body reading).

Thanks for all the suggestions on books everyone.

Incorrect - it is in 13 steps. Step 2 I believe!

You're misremembering the effect - I can 100% tell you he used a billet switch - the switch he used inspired one of my most performed stage routines!

Though that in itself tells you how powerful billet routines are when presented properly!

I disagree with the first point. Step 2 contains pencil, lip, sound, touch and contact muscle reading. None of the above are the type of body reading I was referring to.

The second point, I'm not too sure about. The kid did not write anything - it was nothing to do with the billets collected in the glass container at the front. You might be right that I misremembered the effect, as it was a year or so ago. However, I am fairly certain that it wasn't a billet switch.