talkmagic.co.uk

Guys, hi!

Listen, I'm struggling with the DL and turnover, been practising it for a while now and can't seem to master it.

How long has it taken some of you?

I've read over RRTCM section about 20 times and have watched Andrew Murray (on "Thirteen") and Michael Ammar (ETMCM vol 4.) countless times! I just can't seem to get it! Although all 3 show it slightly differently, not any of them seem to work for me!

This is my first post by the way, so any pointing in the right direction as to where I can have a look next let me know, any good tips then feel free to pm me!

Cheers!

Rob

It's just going to take practive I'm afraid. With anything in life, sometimes you can get it right away and some things you don't and have to work at.

You will get it though, just keep up practicing.

Hi Rob. What exactly is it thats not working for you ? I mean is it the initial lift, grip, are they splitting etc

jim

This is an important question, what cards are you using? They all differ in feel when performing a DL. For example, I hate using Phoenix but love bikes.

As above, what part are you struggling with? I have to be honest and say that mine isn't the best technique but it fools the muggles.

Alec Kobain wrote:This is an important question, what cards are you using? They all differ in feel when performing a DL. For example, I hate using Phoenix but love bikes.

As above, what part are you struggling with? I have to be honest and say that mine isn't the best technique but it fools the muggles.

I'm using bikes. I can't seem to get my break properly and then it goes from a terrible break to a disaster of a turnover! Thumbing off and achieving the break one handed is pretty ninja for me so I try and bevell the deck first and then get the break. Neither look natural in the mirror though and I tend to get a slight overlap which ruins the whole thing! Practice, practice and all that!

Sounds like practice is the answer, from your last post.

The lift get ready, should in most instances be done under cover of a little misdirection, so burning your hands in the mirror at this point wont help.

Break the move down into parts and dont start the next part till you can do the first. First learn to get a break under two cards - make sure the cards are neat while you hold the break. While you are getting the break down try lifting the card(s) from the narrow ends showing the card then replacing it. From there move on to turning the card(s) over onto the deck while maintaining the break. Keeping the left edge of the cards against the deck while turning them can help keep things neat (assuming you are right handed).

Theres not much more i can say on the open forum (i may have said too much already) but if you're still unsure of the details let me know via PM

jim

PS. Have you an effect in mind for this ? The actual effect can sometimes dictate how best to get the break.

I quite like the side count method of obtaining a break for the DL described in Expert Card Technique. I find it a bit more subtle than the method given in RRTCM.

Yeah I agree with Jim. It's a matte of consistent practise. I usually riffle very fast, and due to the constant practise you can get used to the feel of two cards to execute the DL.

Have a go. Once you have the 'grip' try the rotation of the card.

It takes time pal. Don't worry

The get ready is something which we should have a few methods for in my opinion. Im not saying the OP should learn more than one at a time but its something he may want to think about in the future. The reason for this is that sometimes in your routine you will have oppertunities to do the get ready built in. For instance, take the Sandwiched Aces from Mark Wilsons. Instead of showing the 2 red aces at the start, i have the card selected first and placed face up on the table. Now i would be foolish to then close the spread and THEN do my get ready. It would be more economic to catch my break AS the spread is closed. Economy of motion.
There are other examples so having a few methods can be handy.

On the actual lift and turnover id like to mention an often overlooked idea, that of the proper way to remove the now single card. The correct way to do this depends on what you are going to do with the card. If the card is to be inserted into the deck ala Ambitious Card, then the deck should remain almost stationary while the card is removed from the top and placed in the centre.
If on the other hand the card is to be placed on someones hand or the table, or is to be changed, the opposite should happen. The deck should move away from the card, which should remain in the same position in space for a pause. For example if the card is to be placed on someones palm, the card(s) are turned face down and as the right fingers re-grip the card the left hand moves away with the deck. The hand turns palm down as it moves away and slightly to the left then towards the spectator, as you gesture (and ask them) to hold out their hand. As soon as youve asked, the card in the right hand should now move towards them. Between the card being turned face down and the leaning forward of the right hand with the card it should remain ''paused''in the same position - its only a slight pause.

Not every routine can accommdate this but it should be used whenever possible in my opinion.

jim

When I first started playing poker riffling chips and rolling a chip over the top of my fingers seemed the most difficult thing ever. With a bit of practice it became second nature and now riffling massive stacks of chips is very easy

I always think about this now whilst learning new sleight of hand, always seems tough but I know I'll get there if I perservere I'll get there

There are a surprising number of techniques for multiple turnovers. Card College Vol's 1, 2 and 3 have sections covering basic, intermediate and advanced double lifts. From those, you should be able to find a technique that suits you. As a get-ready I use the one handed Pinky Count as tought by Darwin Ortiz in the 'At The Card Table' DVD and book.

As for practicing things such as double lifts,, see my thread at http://www.talkmagic.co.uk/ftopic35084.php&highlight=.

Try alternating turning over a single card and a double. try to make both look as similar as possible. Beyond that, as the others have said, it's a matte rof practice. IIRC, it took me about six months before I thought my DL technique was of sufficent quality to inflict upon an audience.

Cheers for the advice guys, a little perseverance needed I believe. I keep hearing alot about The Card College. I think my book list needs to be added too... Alas not until next month as I've supplemented my hobbies with a new set of football boots, unfortunately they needed replacing more urgently and my good lady would blow her nut if I "wasted" more cash!

I must say though that you guys are a real credit. Thanks for the help. Hopefully my Chicago opener will be the bomb soon enough. I am quite excited about showing it as I like the idea of throwing in different card colours! the only problem is, the bloody DL and unfortunately I am too afraid of embarrassing myself getting caught out (perhaps it is for the best)! Got about 2 or 3 in the bag now they are second nature. Only taken me 6 months!

Cheers though fellas, I will hopefully keep you updated.

Rob

Reverend Martinez wrote:Cheers for the advice guys, a little perseverance needed I believe. I keep hearing alot about The Card College. I think my book list needs to be added too...

Handy tip: DO NOT buy all 5 volumes of Card College at once. Only buy one volume at a time, and work through each (3-6 months, depending upon your free time). This will prevent any skipping ahead.

I agree with the rest, practice & gain some insight into the different ways to DL. I got stuck at an airport in Rome for a few hours & practiced none stop. I managed to get the basics but it took another year to get it smooth. I've since honed it over the last 8 years as well as learning a few variations needed for different effects. I agree that you shouldn't perform it until you have it. The last thing you want is to be caught out on a DL, from then on your audience will be waiting for it. Misdirection is your friend here.

Trying out different methods of doing the DL is fine, as you need to find the method that feels most natural to you. However, once you have settled on one, I'd suggest only using that method and getting it as perfect and imperceptible as you can. I think that's better than knowing lots of different methods, meaning that you cant do any one really well and when it comes to a trick you're trying to decide which one to do.