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What's the best object to use to learn the MP? I have seen it done with coins and poker chips and imagine a poker chip would be easier due to it's larger diameter and lower density? Although coins are much more readily available for practicing anytime, anywhere...

I learnt with a poker chip and can do it alright.
Problem is I can't so well with a £2 coin.

Should've learnt the other way round. Start with a 2 quid coin

Shoot Ogawa has a good tip - what ever coin you learn with, stick a couple of them together.
The extra weight will mean you develop much stronger muscles in your hands and then when you're just using a single coin mean you can fire it much higher.

-mobi

i use a canadian $2 dollar coin........ put it in my hand and "pop" the coin all of 5 mm in the air.......... good times

i started with a poker chip and a large coin. then moved onto a half dollar. but recently iv been practicing with a 2p coin i can only get this in the air a little compared to the half dollar but its improved my technique ten fold. my problem is my hand looks awkward on the set up. how do you overcome this? do you just keep attention on your other hand as you move it up to catch the coin.

Lawrence wrote:I learnt with a poker chip and can do it alright.
Problem is I can't so well with a £2 coin.

Should've learnt the other way round. Start with a 2 quid coin

You should try it with a 5p

Tony Hyams wrote:

Lawrence wrote:I learnt with a poker chip and can do it alright.
Problem is I can't so well with a £2 coin.

Should've learnt the other way round. Start with a 2 quid coin

You should try it with a 5p

I can do a 5p - but the most impossible coin for me is "1 yen"

It is practically plastic - you can bend it using your hands!

It is so light, you physically cannot pass it up!

Coins and chips aside, what do people think is the best resource for learning to muscle pass?

-Stacy

The4thCircle wrote:Coins and chips aside, what do people think is the best resource for learning to muscle pass?

-Stacy

There isn't one.

You just try it, try it, and try it some more. Eventually you get it. It took me 6 months.

I know Jay Noblazada put out a DVD on the subject, imaginatively called the muscle pass DVD, but I have never seen it.

I just practiced with nobody ever teaching more or telling me, and eventually it worked.

If you can classic palm a coin, you can muscle pass a coin (with practice )

This is not correct. There are a few resources, some good, some bad.

The Noblazada DVD is not the place to start; he doesn't do the move well and does not teach it correctly. David Kong also put out a DVD a few years ago, but I've not seen that. David, however, can at least do the move well. John Cornelius' original lesson is also out there, on an old A-1 DVD, and one of Ammar's Classic Renditions DVD.

For my part, I made a video lesson for the Virtual Sessions which is now available as a stand alone download. I do believe that it's the first time the correct method was taught (as opposed to the incorrect method of 'squeeze out of classic palm'). If you are a member of SAM or have access to the MUM magazine, I recently wrote up a detailed lesson as part of my Basic Training column.

The biggest problem with learning the move is not knowing the method beforehand. It's a very hard move to do well, but fairly easy to do badly.

Ian

I have David Kong's DVD and he teaches the move well and also includes a number of applications for it. As Ian said above, it also includes the excellent John Cornelius footage too.

IanKendall wrote:This is not correct. There are a few resources, some good, some bad.

The Noblazada DVD is not the place to start; he doesn't do the move well and does not teach it correctly. David Kong also put out a DVD a few years ago, but I've not seen that. David, however, can at least do the move well. John Cornelius' original lesson is also out there, on an old A-1 DVD, and one of Ammar's Classic Renditions DVD.

For my part, I made a video lesson for the Virtual Sessions which is now available as a stand alone download. I do believe that it's the first time the correct method was taught (as opposed to the incorrect method of 'squeeze out of classic palm'). If you are a member of SAM or have access to the MUM magazine, I recently wrote up a detailed lesson as part of my Basic Training column.

The biggest problem with learning the move is not knowing the method beforehand. It's a very hard move to do well, but fairly easy to do badly.

Ian

Apologies - I didn't mean there isn't one as in, there isn't a single resource out there. I meant I didn't think one was needed, due to my managing without one. I didn't write that very well though! My own fault!

The4thCircle wrote:Coins and chips aside, what do people think is the best resource for learning to muscle pass?

-Stacy

Simple really, classic palm the coin, turn your hand palm up. Add pressure to the edges of the coin that make contact with your flesh. And one day, (usually after you have had to stop because your hand started to hurt) the coin will simply flip out of the deathgrip you've been gripping it with. First the edge against the thumb will flip out and then it will be airborne.

Trick here is while you don't really need to be in the correct position to do a classic palm to classic palm a coin, you do need to be in the proper classic palm position for the muscle pass. So before you waste a lot of time practicing the muscle pass make sure you have your classic palm down correctly.

Think of it this way. One of the original uses for a muscle pass was not to make a coin jump in front of everyone, rather it was a sleight, once the coin was in the classic palm position the magician can step forward and lower his/her arms. As you step forward your arms naturally swing a little behind your back. In that instant, muscle pass from one hand to the other behind your back. Brilliant if you think about it, but there are other ways to accomplish that same thing. Eventually somebody really smart came around and performed the move right in front of the audience only they did it laterally instead of horizontally. And alas, a new way for magicians to show off was born.

Hope you enjoyed my made up history of the muscle pass. Okay only part was made up.

See, that's what I'm talking about...

To be fair, it's not John's move to give permission. The original description is in Arthur Buckley's Principles and Deceptions. It was used for many years as a covert sleight - Alex Elmsley was fond of passing a coin into a topit. John's original use - the slow coin - is described briefly by Mike Close in the current MUM.

Although it's many years since I met John, I have discussed the move with him on email. He's not seen my lesson, and ironically I've not seen David's (although I had a brief conversation with him when it was first mooted). Perhaps I should have said 'it _was_ the first time...' since it predated David's DVD by a couple of years.