talkmagic.co.uk

I guess purchasing magic from a magic shop is quite a unique issue. If they demo it, and then you ask questions that point to the method, they are probably still not going to openly say yes because then they've lost a sale. I personally would be against demos, but then I know that if there was a product I was unsure of, I'd want to see if it was worth it. It's just a tough issue that could keep going around in circles.

I like to think I have enough of a rapport with the staff at my local magic shop that they know when I start asking about something I'm looking for it to tick boxes, and if they're ticked, I'll buy it. That said, yes some people do go in there as lay folk looking for answers and one of the guys there (Paul) seems to revel in it.

I'll never forget lurking around there looking for some beginning materials back in the early days when a juggler came in and started asking for "anything which lights up and looks really impressive". Later he started asking to see pretty much everything.
When it got to the linking rings, I noticed that Paul was playing with the guy, having noticed he just wanted to see the secret. At one point Paul even handed him a pair of linked rings that he'd just linked and unlinked the others as if showing him what to do, and he tried to follow along with little to no success.

Hilarious.

I like to think that despite the other thread currently trending about there being 'too many' magicians, the craft is still small enough that at least in local circles people can get to know each other and know who is taking it seriously.

-Stacy

I must be a very odd sort of magician (shh at the back), as I am not fussed about knowing how something is done (although I will have a quick think about it, then move on). A few years ago, someone I know did an excellent game-themed routine and I was chatting to him about a couple of bits that I really liked, where I had no idea as to the method. He immediately told me how they were done, and I was taken aback, because I was perfectly happy for him to keep them to himself. Luckily, these were the sort of secrets that did not detract from the tricks as far as I was concerned; I was impressed by his ingenuity.

Part-Timer wrote:I must be a very odd sort of magician (shh at the back), as I am not fussed about knowing how something is done (although I will have a quick think about it, then move on).

I'm the same, I'd rather preserve the wow moment of being completely amazed by an effect rather than replace it with the mechanical dissection of a series of sleights. That said if I see an effect and I know that it would fit with the sort of thing I personally want to perform then I will make the effort to find out the method and spend the time to learn to perform that effect.

Obsessively wanting to know how every single effect is performed (or the assumption that to be a 'good' magician you should know how everyone else's routines are performed) just sucks the joy out of watching magic for me. Magicians can be akin to the worst kind of hecklers that smugly sit there with their arms crossed because they know how it is done, instead of relaxing and enjoying another performer entertaining.

When we set up Subversive Circuits, we took a conscious decision to make the manuals to our props public domain. We did it as a reaction to the ripoffs and lies that have sadly become a part of the descriptions of some magic products (cough minimax cough). We wanted people to be able to see exactly what they are getting, and it hasn't harmed us one bit. However, I've since found some of our manuals torrented. What does that tell you about people?

With our stuff, you can see it demonstrated, we'll even rent it to you, but you'll never be able to reproduce it unless you can figure out how to get at the on-board software. The boot loader on the chips we use is set to refuse all attempts to dump the contents of memory. The only way of doing it is to reset the lock bits, and that entails erasing the entire chip, so good luck with that!

Most magicians are tricksters.

I do magic therefore I tell fibs..... sez it all for me.

Outlandish lies are particularly great for, as Penn is said to have highlighted in Sleights Of Mind, sucker tricks, in which a bogus explanation apparently curries favour with the spectator, who feel as if they have been let in for an effect, only for the second repeat to blow that out of the water. There is a similar effect by Greg Wilson somewhere where he exposes the idea of palming by showing how, raised up at a certain angle, you can see the palmed card, and how if you lower it down, it is less of an issue (also saw the bar guy at Manchester Illusions Bar use this in patter), again for a surprise finish to follow.

Most magicians, myself included, feel as if (occasionally) downloading a torrent or working out an effect through calculated guesses feel immoral, but would happily spend close to a hundred pounds on a gimmick that probably cost a few pounds to make, and whilst such magi would not entertain exposure to the lay public, amongst themselves candidly discuss sleights or secretly consider asking a magi friend outright how the secret works. I guess the same situation applies in magic shops. Like illegal downloads, piracy and sales of CDs, sometimes the collector and hoarder facet to our magic bug is to say that X Effect deserves to be in our physical collection, in the same way X CD is an essential part of one's music collection.

Slight tangent, but some effects in replicated form do not work as well as the original marketed effect. Take Jim Pace's The Web, for instance: I knew how it worked as a friend showed me, and whilst it would be very easy to source the necessary items as opposed to purchasing the effect (which can be satisfying in itself, like cracking a puzzle), I'm sure many here feel that the original materials use make the effect superior. Having said this, there is a certain DIY approach to purchased effects that involve ultra expensive "official" refills, or alternatively sourced materials. Morally, I'd be thinking that as I had spent a lot on the effect, it is acceptable to find my own alternatives to refills. This includes gimmicks that break or are lost: it would seem equally immoral to expect magis to simply purchase the effect again where they would be disregarding the DVD and instructions, but simply paying for the gimmick. Unfortunately, magic creators would be unable to benefit if they sold the effect at a cheaper price minus instructions, but for just the gimmick alone, as those who lack the moral obligation to purchase the original effect, but simply torrent or youtube the secret will realistically miss out on the magic creator's original intentions: that the paying customer takes onboard the nuances and respect of his effect to the full.

Admittedly, what I have said above is hypocritical as whilst I do purchase a lot of original effects, I admit I have downloaded torrents of magic previously....

But here's the rub, the paradox. Had I not downloaded those (in retrospect naff) Ellusionist torrents, I wouldn't have developed my fascination and interest in magic. Using what I downloaded as a springboard to some hefty expensive purchases, I feel that I would not have been so addicted within a short space of time. Therefore, ironically, it is exposure that creates interest, as if magic really was a cloak-and-dagger-secrets-based community, newbies would find it offputting to spend £100s on a DVD that may well spark their interest.

Just two cents' worth.