talkmagic.co.uk

If you're concentrating on cards then forget all the supernatural stuff. One or the other. Nobody is going to take a bizarre performer remotely seriously if he's just done an ACR, it's completely ridiculous. From the sounds of your posts in this and other threads it sounds like you're really enjoying learning cards and coins and my advice would be to stick to them and learn to present yourself. The other effects are essentially self-workers and are ALL about presentation. Do this kind of magic a service and wait until you have some presentational experience under your belt before entertaining them. Trust me, I'm speaking from experience, an effect such as OOTW or Gauci's BL will go down like a lead balloon without great presentation.

I think like most beginners you are trying stuff that is far too advanced for you at the minute. If you haven't even finished RRTCM, I'm pretty certain that you won't be able to perform Zamiel's Rose well. I was the same a while back, when I promised to myself that I was going to practise Derren Brown's 3 Card Routine. I know that there are plenty of beginners who have said that they want to be able to do that routine. My advice would be don't bother. You'll just end up getting frustrated that you can't do it. I'd suggest, Svengaliposeur, that you finish RRTCM and learn some of the tricks in there, and then have a think what you want to do regarding routines and tricks. It's recommended by lots of magicians for a reason. I don't know why every beginner seems to think they are too advanced for this book. Take the time to go through it properly and you will improve noticeably. I think I've improved through working through it, anyway, instead of trying to perform tricks that form the repertoire of professional magicians that have been performing and practising for decades.

Instead of the Gauci effect, perhaps Black Hart's (new) "Madame Pandora" (I think...) would fit the bill better?

Madame Endora I think you mean. http://www.blackhart.co.uk/endora.html" target="_blank

Look for an effect called 'White Star' for the out of the world one

Yes - Madame Endora.
Thanks Mr Hart, (Mr Black?)
Thanks anyway - please do not curse me for getting it wrong.
Bruce

Look for an effect called 'White Star' for the out of the world one

Yes - however, (like using The Jack the Ripper theme for "From Hell"), you need to still be careful using the Titanic theme of "White Star".
Very much one to recommend, but not necessarily one that can always be used
Bruce

Do you perform on a regular basis? Because here is the thing. Performing is a lot more difficult than reading the books and practicing.

2. Careful about jumping into occult type magic for two reasons, one if you really can't pull it off it comes off as cheesy.

3. Do you know anything about the occult? Because if you don't you may want to spend time reading up on that because you are going to run into people like me who know quite a bit about rituals and the like. And there are a lot of us out there, well at least more than you think. I remember the poor b***** who tried using Wicken magic as his theme, only he really didn't know anything about the culture. Lets just say it wasn't well recieved as there were people in the audience who did, and they were quite insulted. Of course this was in Vancouver BC where there is a large Wicken community. I'm not equating Wicken with the occult, I am using an that as an example in that you have to know what you are talking about. You wouldn't go out there and perform Gospel magic without knowing anything about Christianity right? Same thing.

Putting on a goth face and telling fanciful tales really won't take you very far.

But lets go back to my original question. Do you perform regularly? If not start at the beginning. Get yourself a Svengali deck, a TT and dynamic coins. Read the instructions, follow said instructions and perform in front of real lay audiences. Can be one or two people, or a small crowd. Doesn't matter which just perform.

If of course you do perform on a regular basis, are scholarly enough to get by in the occult then ignore this comment and allow others who may not perform on a regular basis and are looking to get into bizarre magic take this as a suggestion.

I say that, at this stage, you'd be best off performing "some tricks" to "some people". I'm not being flippant; I think you need to think a bit less about where you will end up and concentrate on doing some magic. Have fun with magic and let the more involved stuff (like dark routines and honing your performing character) come later.

It's a bit like topiary. You have to grow the plant before you can trim the leaves into an interesting shape.

Sorry - no idea where that analogy came from (maybe the weird plants in the last episode of Doctor Who).

For years, I just did tricks. I was a kid who'd started doing magic from a kit I got as a present. Every so often, I'd inflict a trick, or series of tricks (not a routine) on my long-suffering family and occasionally school friends. I'd not read Weber or Ortiz and, frankly, I think that would have been a mistake at that age, even if the books had been written then. Instead I read books by Ali Bongo, Peter Eldin, Gyles Brandreth (yup - I learned equivoque from one of his works) and Paul Daniels. Fun (and informative) books about doing magic as a hobby, for fun.

To put it another way, who picks up paints as a kid and thinks, "Well, it's time to study anatomy, colour theory and perspective"? While you aren't a child, you are a beginner with magic. So act like one, and enjoy it.

(I am not saying you can't enjoy it later, of course, just that you should probably start with the basics now.)

bmat, are they the same one Wiccans that'd be offended by being called Wickens?

Vanderbelt wrote:bmat, are they the same one Wiccans that'd be offended by being called Wickens?

I nearly said much the same, but decided that, as bmat is not writing for a Wiccan audience, I'd let it slide.

Actually, now I have the Whicker Island sketch from Monty Python in my head.

Part-Timer wrote:

Vanderbelt wrote:bmat, are they the same one Wiccans that'd be offended by being called Wickens?

I nearly said much the same, but decided that, as bmat is not writing for a Wiccan audience, I'd let it slide.

And for the Goddess's sake, please don't start the argument about how it's pronounced, I saw two Wiccans in a New Age shop almost come to blows about whether it was pronounced "Wicken" or "witchen".

I second what people said about being wary of trying magic that can come off as cheesy. Also, if you're still performing informally and infrequently, you don't have to worry about having that much of a planned routine ready. OOTW alone, with a pack of regular cards, can secure your reputation as an amazing magician. Planning routines and discussing them with others, as fun as it is, is not all that productive. Going out and performing-- almost anything, really-- and getting the confidence, style, character, and timing is more important than dreaming about a set show.

At this stage, you may want to consider working on one trick at a time and doing your utmost to become an expert on it. If, for example, you wish to focus on OOTW, you ought to buy and read whatever resources you can get your hands on about the trick. You'd buy the Paul Curry descriptions, Best of All Worlds, and any other source you find. After studying, you'll be ready to polish the effect in performance. Force yourself to use the trick more than any other "new" trick you encounter. Work it and work it hard. You'll get a feel for the subtleties of the routine and come up with lines that fit the routine. When you accidentally improvise a good line, write it down and save it. It will most likely reflect your personality and define your style more than any "stock" lines from any book or DVD can.

Master tricks one by one at a pace where you find yourself feeling very confident and polished about each one. It's a slow process-- if done meticulously, it may take months to develop even 20 minutes of solid material-- but will yield the most gratifying results.

Heckler wrote:

Part-Timer wrote:

Vanderbelt wrote:bmat, are they the same one Wiccans that'd be offended by being called Wickens?

I nearly said much the same, but decided that, as bmat is not writing for a Wiccan audience, I'd let it slide.

And for the Goddess's sake, please don't start the argument about how it's pronounced, I saw two Wiccans in a New Age shop almost come to blows about whether it was pronounced "Wicken" or "witchen".

Ask them to pronounce Athame! I've seen small wars start over that!!

Vanderbelt wrote:Ask them to pronounce Athame! I've seen small wars start over that!!

A-thaym?
Ath-a-may?
Athe-a-mee?

Though Rose McGowen is allowed to pronounce it however she likes! I'd even settle for "knife"... or "curtain"