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So.... Was doing my thing tonight while at work when the christian guy who we work with comes over and keeps trying to undermine me; it's just illusion, it's very thin string, slight of hand etc. It reminds me of a quote;

"magic is "precisely what religion is, or at least was, however much that may offend modern sensibilities"

Religion to me is believing in the impossible, hence why it's called faith. so why , on the other hand does he say to the people that are amazed how it's fake/ strings/ slights etc. I'm my mind it's the same as me saying religion is fake, Jesus was a magician.

Sounds like I'm having a religeos rant but I just don't get it. Why does someone that is so religeoys want to try to prove that real magic is impossible?

When I busk, I get the opposite response. I'm comfortable saying that what I do are tricks, yet many religious people confront me after my show if I say that magic doesn't exist outright. Of course they don't have arguments, just assertion, but I don't have any expectations out there.

The diffrence between (real) magic and religion is- Religion puts god at the centre of the universe, magic put man at the centre.
There is a verse in the bible 'though shall not consort with conjuriors'. While this is unlikly to mean stage magicians, some christains will have nothing to do with magicians because of this.

Playing cards are often referred to as the 'devils picturebook' in some religious circles.
Hence the title of Derren's DVD.

There was a thread over at the Green Place which surprised me, where American magicians were describing some extremely adverse religious reactions to their magic. Being accused of being in league with Satan is probably a flattering reacion to an ACR though....

If he's seriously worried about a few card tricks or something with rubber bands performed purely to entertain others then his faith is more than a bit shaky and he's just trying to prop up his own insecurities by undermining what you do. True Christians have a strong faith and your routines can’t faze them.

If you think the guy can take a joke just tell him that for your next trick you need to borrow five loaves, three fishes and a multitude, if that’s likely to offend then politely ignore him as nothing you can say or do will convert him to your way of thinking, if he gets too bad simply tell him that it’s all a bit of fun but his activities are spoiling things for others.

Being a believer he has proven he cant even reason with himself, let alone reason with you or your magic. Ignore him and tell him to do one if he wont leave you alone.

Hey, I'm just trying to entertain some co-workers with some sleight of hand magic. Would you mind trying to not ruin it. I don't come to your church on a Sunday and run around shouting "Jesus was just a 3rd rate magician. There's no evidence he existed! You are all idiots!" do I?

rvoice100 wrote:So.... Was doing my thing tonight while at work when the christian guy who we work with comes over and keeps trying to undermine me; it's just illusion, it's very thin string, slight of hand etc.

Is he specifically bringing up religion when he does this? It could just be one of those dicks who likes ruining magic for others who also just happens to be religious. There are loads of people out there who do the same thing just because they're not the centre of attention and seem to be under the misguided impression that everyone else really believes you're doing it with magical powers rather than trickery.

It reminds me of someone who I used to work with who, after Derren Brown's Russian Roulette was televised, happily went around telling everyone that it was 'just a trick' as if everyone seriously believed that he was actually going to run the risk of blowing his brains out on tv. Of course it was a trick, of course conjurers use sleight of hand and illusions- magic isn't actually real.

I think they honestly believe they are smarter than everyone else and have somehow seen through this amazing web of lies and deceit that everybody else naively accepts. Then, to make themselves feel big, they proudly strut around showing off that they know the truth.

My advice is: get the people who you're doing the magic for to tell him to go back to work and mind his own business, I'm sure they don't appreciate him messing with their fun. The next time someone asks you to do something, act hesitant and say that you'd like to but someone keeps on interrupting and it's ruining your enjoyment. The next time he starts acting up, I'm sure they'll tell him to go away.

His issues have nothing to do with is faith. The guy is clearly just a dick.

Oh dear, religion...thought I was safe on this forum away from that nonsense

So many nutters out there...I can never resist the old "I'm off to give blood soon" line when the old Jehovahs are banging down my door

As said above, I tend to find those most protective of their religious beliefs as those with weak faith. I'm an atheist through and through but I've have some great debates with religious friends where we end amicably where they think I'm wrong and I think they're wrong. But then you meet these people who are happy to arrogantly destroy other people's belief but the moment you attack theirs they get all defensive.

And no doubt I'll be proven wrong but it does seem the majority of successful magicians are atheists and I can understand why because you know it's all tricks and realise magic doesn't exist.

Alfred Borden wrote:Oh dear, religion...

As you can probably guess, we've had quite a few ding dongs over Faith and Religion on TM, sooner or later the threads tend to go way off topic, feathers fly, rattles get thrown out of prams and so on. Hopefully this one will fare better because we're all very sensble and understanding people - aren't we... !

Mandrake wrote:

Alfred Borden wrote:Oh dear, religion...

As you can probably guess, we've had quite a few ding dongs over Faith and Religion on TM, sooner or later the threads tend to go way off topic, feathers fly, rattles get thrown out of prams and so on. Hopefully this one will fare better because we're all very sensble and understanding people - aren't we... !

Yes indeed Mandrake, I meant "oh dear" as in, I come here to enjoy reading and talking magic

I used to be an "each to his own" kind of guy but over the years I have found religious people to be the most self righteous

Remember watching a programme a couple of years ago about evolution, and these religious maniacs sending hate mail and worse to the guy that was promoting Darwin's work.

Only religious people could argue with evolution

Like you say Mandrake, everyone here is sensible

You can find the self-righteous in all walks of life, religious faith or no religious faith. Similarly with maniacs. I tend to encounter them most often on the internet, as it happens.