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Hi

I have got the movements of the CP down but can't find a decent angle. Could anyone suggest any covers, because my hands are quite small (that is not an excuse...). Also, are there any good books on this and the Herman, I would quite like to learn it maybe as an alternative.

I have looked at the other threads on the CP but none of them seem to address this issue

Thanks alot,

Tjex

Kaufman's On The Pass

What situation are you in where the angles matter?

I find angles are completely irrelevant when your spectator isn't looking at your hands

I am wanting to use a pass in an ACR.

To be honest my speed isn't very good, and when I use it on a group of people there is some times someone who says, "I saw you do something" or something along those lines, which ruins the effect. At the moment, I think is is the speed which is the problem. I am looking at the turnover pass in expert card technique which will hopefully help.

Would you say the herman pass or classic is better

When I do a pass, I use the Ortiz Shift. Good angles. Also, for the acr, if you pass with a card or two above the selection, you can show that the card isn't on the top or bottom before revealing that it's on top.

Tjex1 wrote:I am wanting to use a pass in an ACR.

To be honest my speed isn't very good,

Suggest ditching from current routine until speed is better.

Do you haev Daryl's ACR video? His idea of an ACR being like jazz is something I live by when I do one; the idea being that he knows how he's going to start, he knows roughly how he's going to finish, but just kind of makes it up in the middle.

Lawrence wrote:

Tjex1 wrote:I am wanting to use a pass in an ACR.

To be honest my speed isn't very good,

Suggest ditching from current routine until speed is better.

Do you haev Daryl's ACR video? His idea of an ACR being like jazz is something I live by when I do one; the idea being that he knows how he's going to start, he knows roughly how he's going to finish, but just kind of makes it up in the middle.

No, but I am planning on getting something on the pass, Kaufman or the above.

I wouldn't get too bogged down by the pass. The CP is never going to be completely invisible, and you definitely need to use some covering motion as well as misdirection. Dribbling the cards offers decent cover, as does spreading the cards on the table after completing the pass.

You don't have to use the pass. Daryl doesn't use it, and he's superb. Most of the manuals that claim that you have to learn the pass before starting card magic were written before alternative methods of controlling cards to the top/bottom were used. Good luck, anyway. The choice is yours.

Oh and finally, the turnover pass is very deceptive but it takes a lot of practise to get the moves to flow together, and to eradicate the sound of the transposition of the packets (I'm still working on it). You also need to have a reason for turning the cards over.

I really like the move, but the danger is I will end up over using it... The cp taught in rrtcm is the one I am working on, but keeping the right hand as still as possible.

There seem to be conflicting views, but is this the way it should be done?

Oh. and isn't the turnover a herman variation, or have I gone wrong somewhere?

From the description I've read it seems fairly similar, just a slightly different position of the pack in relation to the spectators and a different grip of the bottom packet. It's described in More Card Manipulations 1 by Jean Hugard.

I wouldn't expend too much effort and time on learning the pass. I know when I first started I spent ages on trying to learn it, perhaps like you're doing now. I'm still pretty bad at it. If I were you I'd place it in the background; keep practising at it, but at the same time don't worry too much about it. Concentrate on more important stuff like palming, false shuffles, etc. There are plenty of easier methods to control cards to the top of the deck, and many are mentioned in The Royal Road to Card Magic. You might want to use these for now, and make the pass more of a long term project to work at. It's ultimately up to you though, and if you're determined to master it then go for it. It might take you a while though, but if you can master it then it's a very useful sleight (or so I've heard )

Tjex1 wrote:I really like the move, but the danger is I will end up over using it... The cp taught in rrtcm is the one I am working on, but keeping the right hand as still as possible.

There seem to be conflicting views, but is this the way it should be done?

Fred Robinson had the best classic pass. It's described in his book.

cc100 wrote:From the description I've read it seems fairly similar, just a slightly different position of the pack in relation to the spectators and a different grip of the bottom packet. It's described in More Card Manipulations 1 by Jean Hugard.

I wouldn't expend too much effort and time on learning the pass. I know when I first started I spent ages on trying to learn it, perhaps like you're doing now. I'm still pretty bad at it. If I were you I'd place it in the background; keep practising at it, but at the same time don't worry too much about it. Concentrate on more important stuff like palming, false shuffles, etc. There are plenty of easier methods to control cards to the top of the deck, and many are mentioned in The Royal Road to Card Magic. You might want to use these for now, and make the pass more of a long term project to work at. It's ultimately up to you though, and if you're determined to master it then go for it. It might take you a while though, but if you can master it then it's a very useful sleight (or so I've heard )

Thanks, I am working on my palms and deals at the moment. The pass comes in when I have any spare time. I have got the speed now and am surprised at how quickly I have got the hang of it. I reckon another week or so's work on angles and the right hand cover and it should be ready.

I am still confused as to whether it should be the top hand or bottom hand doing the work. I have come to my own compromise which I am planning on filming when I have it right.

Tjex

It should be both hands I think. I read somewhere that only the left hand should do the work while the right remains stationary. However, I found that the movement of the packets is not as economical because the lower packet is not being levered upwards, meaning that the upper packet has to travel a greater distance to clear it. I'm no expert at the move as I've already said. I hope this helps though. The method given in RRTCM is the traditional, tried-and-tested method of the pass. It's explained identically in other books, such as Hoffmann's Modern Magic, so I'm sure it's the right way to perform it.

cc100 wrote:It should be both hands I think. I read somewhere that only the left hand should do the work while the right remains stationary. However, I found that the movement of the packets is not as economical because the lower packet is not being levered upwards, meaning that the upper packet has to travel a greater distance to clear it. I'm no expert at the move as I've already said. I hope this helps though. The method given in RRTCM is the traditional, tried-and-tested method of the pass. It's explained identically in other books, such as Hoffmann's Modern Magic, so I'm sure it's the right way to perform it.

I found that keeping the right hand still flashes the left packet big time because of the huge distance needed to travel over the first. I found that a half movement then a click from the upper hand keeps any thing from coming out of cover.

Thats my comprimise anyway... and its very quick with very little movements of either hands. The problem is now it is not really a classic pass, it has evolved into something new. A J-Pass