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Hi guys,

As I'm just starting out in magic, I'm currently deciding what type of magic I want to do, and what type of style I want to adopt. I'm currently just toying with cards and coins ( and very much enjoying it), but I'd like to incorparate mentalism (just intermittent mentalist tricks, i don't want to exclusively do mentalism) into some tricks and I was wondering if anyone can advise me on a book or two that are good for beginners in the art of mentalism?

I've been told 13 steps to mentalism and practical mental magic are good starting places.

Can anyone concur?


Regards,

Liam

They're the places to begin!

Tomo's right, those are the bibles but I'd also really also suggest reading Karl Fulves Self Working Mentalism to start with. It's a nice book full of simple but very good ideas.

Thanks, Tomo & Lady of Mystery.

I'll be sure to check them out.

Lady of Mystery wrote:Tomo's right, those are the bibles but I'd also really also suggest reading Karl Fulves Self Working Mentalism to start with. It's a nice book full of simple but very good ideas.

are you on commision Lady of Mystery?
i've ordered mine from amazon, post is slow

If Lady of Mystery had commission on that and Mark Wilson's complete course she'd be a rich lady. I'm pretty certain I bought both from her continual recommendation.

Perfect choices, Liam!

ENTER: Devil's Advocate

Understand that "Mentalism" IS NOT the same thing as "Magic" in that it depends more on showmanship skills than Magic.

Creating a Mentalism act isn't even remotely close to being the same thing as developing a solid card/coin routine for close-up situations

If you are new to magic as a whole get the Mark Wilson and/or Tarbell courses and learn what's in them first followed by Magic & Showmanship. This will give you a foundation on the BASICS as well as a more rounded understanding on things. Don't try to learn it all only to reflect the typical magic geek that knows a lot but can't do any of it well. Don't run out trying to be yet another Derren Brown or Criss Angels clone by doing really poor Mental Magic Tricks thinking that makes you a "Mentalist". . . and trust me, there are far more hacks out there doing just that along with tons of self-promotion, who aren't anywhere close to be a believable Mind Reader; they are seen and accepted as being Magicians -- tricksters, which is the last thing any real student of Mentalism wants to be seen as given that said craft succeeds as the result of audience investment of belief in what we do and our ability to sell the idea that what we claim is valid.

Stick with learning the basics for the first year or two, then get your feet wet in those avenues that peak your interests most and more importantly, the areas you show a natural penchant towards.

Craig Browning wrote:ENTER: Devil's Advocate

Understand that "Mentalism" IS NOT the same thing as "Magic" in that it depends more on showmanship skills than Magic.

Creating a Mentalism act isn't even remotely close to being the same thing as developing a solid card/coin routine for close-up situations

If you are new to magic as a whole get the Mark Wilson and/or Tarbell courses and learn what's in them first followed by Magic & Showmanship. This will give you a foundation on the BASICS as well as a more rounded understanding on things. Don't try to learn it all only to reflect the typical magic geek that knows a lot but can't do any of it well. Don't run out trying to be yet another Derren Brown or Criss Angels clone by doing really poor Mental Magic Tricks thinking that makes you a "Mentalist". . . and trust me, there are far more hacks out there doing just that along with tons of self-promotion, who aren't anywhere close to be a believable Mind Reader; they are seen and accepted as being Magicians -- tricksters, which is the last thing any real student of Mentalism wants to be seen as given that said craft succeeds as the result of audience investment of belief in what we do and our ability to sell the idea that what we claim is valid.

Stick with learning the basics for the first year or two, then get your feet wet in those avenues that peak your interests most and more importantly, the areas you show a natural penchant towards.

Actually, he'd be better off taking acting lessons or reading books on acting along with 13 steps. As that is all that really sells a mentalist over and above a magician.

you know to a point i agree. What singles out the mentalist, is his or her command over the audience. And this comes with confidence in front of the crowd. Which is strengthened by acting experience no end.

molesworth is correct

Mentalism and more so, Bizarre styled magick are performance heavy. Unfortunately, so many view it just as they do magic, thinking all they need are the tricks & methods, which is why I always ponder "If we are but actors playing the part of a magician" as some claim, "why isn't the first volume of the Wilson or Tarbell courses on Theater and how to be an Actor?"

I would say that is because stage presence and showmanship come with experience. You need to learn at least some tricks/skills first before you can perform anything as a magician or a mentalist, and through performing in front of audiences you develop performance and people handling skills. It's perhaps not as easy to learn by reading books than sleight of hand moves, etc. I know you guys know far more about magic and performing than I do, but those are my thoughts anyway.

Craig Browning wrote:ENTER: Devil's Advocate

Understand that "Mentalism" IS NOT the same thing as "Magic" in that it depends more on showmanship skills than Magic.

Creating a Mentalism act isn't even remotely close to being the same thing as developing a solid card/coin routine for close-up situations

If you are new to magic as a whole get the Mark Wilson and/or Tarbell courses and learn what's in them first followed by Magic & Showmanship. This will give you a foundation on the BASICS as well as a more rounded understanding on things. Don't try to learn it all only to reflect the typical magic geek that knows a lot but can't do any of it well. Don't run out trying to be yet another Derren Brown or Criss Angels clone by doing really poor Mental Magic Tricks thinking that makes you a "Mentalist". . . and trust me, there are far more hacks out there doing just that along with tons of self-promotion, who aren't anywhere close to be a believable Mind Reader; they are seen and accepted as being Magicians -- tricksters, which is the last thing any real student of Mentalism wants to be seen as given that said craft succeeds as the result of audience investment of belief in what we do and our ability to sell the idea that what we claim is valid.

Stick with learning the basics for the first year or two, then get your feet wet in those avenues that peak your interests most and more importantly, the areas you show a natural penchant towards.

Craig,

I apreciate your input and advice, and yes I understand magic and mentalism are two different things.

My main interest is card magic, I've bought the card college set and I'm studying it arduiously. But, I don't want to be someone who is limited to strictly card magic, I want that to be main area, but I'd also like to be able to do a few tricks with coins, mentalism and other stuff. And I'd like to incorporate some mentalist stuff into card tricks to strengthen the effects.

Of course, doing a basic card force on a laymen could pass for mind reading/mentalism (from the audicence's point of view), but I'm looking for a style of magic that isn't confined to a specific area. And that's not having a knock at those magicians that choose to stay in one area, I'd just like to be able to perform confidently in a few areas of magic, and preferbly impromptu.

And I'd figured that the earlier I start, the easier I will grasp it. You know, a bit like riding a bike, or learing to drive a car, they say the later you leave it, the harder it gets.

I think what Craig is trying to get across is that you cannot do a "bit" of mentalism. You can do some mental magic, but mentalism relies upon belief and presentation.

For example, Alley Barber, the back-street, cut-throat Sultan of Shenanigans starts his routine with comedy sponge bunnies. Nice trick. Next, he does torn and restored card with card to impossible location ending. Nice trick. Then he reveals three spectators' innermost thoughts. Nice trick.

Cyrus Strange starts by discussing intuition. He asks a spectator to count how much change he has, and writes down his guess. The spectator reveals how much and Cyrus was right. Was that a trick, or something else? Next, someone draws a picture and shows no one else. Cyrus takes a pad and starts scribbling on it. The two pictures are about 75% similar. Wow, that was weird and a bit unsettling. Finally, Cyrus reveals three spectators' innermost thoughts. Get out of my mind, NOW!

See the difference?

Some performers don't agree that the demarcation is this clear (and some deny it exists at all), but that's the argument. For some people, you either do mentalism (like Cyrus Strange) or you do mental magic (like Alley Barber). The tricks may be identical, but it's the context and presentation that makes the difference. You may still be able to do magic tricks in a mentalism performance (Richard Osterlind and Kreskin both do), but the key is in how the elements fit together. Maybe.

EDIT: I have just had a thought. Derren Brown got into mentalism from card magic (with the odd bit of levitation work, according to one of his books). He started doing tricks with more of a mental flavour, and things progressed from there. I think the books that have already been mentioned are a good place for you to start.