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Im often coming up with ideas for effects that would include magicians choice but often scrap them because I feel the force is a bit too obvious. This may just be magicians guilt but Im curious on peoples thoughts anyway. What would you say is the best amout of options for magicians choice? E.g if it was 3 its pretty easy but I find it harder when it gets to more and your actions of the choice of options becomes inconsistent, for examples keeping the selcted 3 then removing 1. I understand a lot of this can come down to presentation skills also.

Done well, it can be a very powerful technique but done badly, it's transparent. A lot is going to depend on what it is that you're trying to force. Colin McLeod has got one or two nice examples of equivoque on his Open Minds DVDs, it might be worth having a look at those and seeing how he goes about it.

Will do thanks

Colin McLeod has a nice equivoque of a single playing card out of 52, its based on "Deckquivoque" found in "Paralies" by Joshua Quinn.
I first saw it on Colin's DVDs and thought it was incredible, the instruction was great, he goes into enough detail without overloading you... however once you are getting the hang of it it is worth getting Joshua Quinns book. It'll help you to develop your own script and to better understand what each part of the script is doing and why its done that way.
otherwise i've heard that Max Mavens booklet on equivoque is one of the best for learning how to do it well.

Thanks very much FTHO i will deffo look in to them. I like the sound of the equivoque of a single card from 52 so many ideas are coming to mind now.

As Lady says, Equivoque is all about presentation and performance for me. The patter has to be natural or it just looks like you are up to something.

confidence is the key! you have to act as if this is what you were going to do all along. also, try not to repeat the same patter at each stage, use different sentences that amount to the same thing. for example first time you might say 'point to 3 of the cards' second time 'put 1 card in your pocket'. same logic goes for when you eliminate cards. if the first time they point at one and you say 'right that leaves me with this one' and then next time they point at the card you are forcing, and you say 'okay so keep that card' the inconsistancy can be very obvious. take time to script what you are going to say down to the very last word and once you are happy stick to it, dont ad lib.

having said that, im pretty pants at equivoque. so what do i know, eh?

There is a podcast somewhere on iTunes of Joshua Quinn doing his Deckquivoque routine over the phone with someone. At each stage that they make a choice they go for the "weaker" one, which makes it all a bit painful to listen to when you know the method, but they are still won over at the end and he links it in nicely with his ESP NOW VIP routine, also from his brilliant PARALIES book. Worth a listen if you can track it down.

Thanks guys will try and source that podcast out ... I know what your saying about the cringe worthy ones I've heard a few during my research

Try Max Maven's "Multiplicity".

Furthermore 3/4 Objects is fine for equivoque. If you want to double the amount, say 6/8 objects. Just eliminate half right off the bat, or theres some other ways to eliminate alot anyways you'll see what i mean if you watch that DVD.

Magicians choice is pretty scary until you get comfortable with it. One of the best things I have learned in magic is to not care about the outcome. I think that is more important for mentalism than traditional magic. Mainly because traditional magic has a set outcome and mentalism is more of a jazz tune. Kenton has many ebooks that offer some great advice on handling magicians choice. He recently released Direct Control which, is in no way MC, but it pairs really well with it and actually adds some great tips to help with it.

Here is some advice without giving advice. The best way to draw something is to draw what isn't there. Don't draw the hand, but everything else. When you are done drawing... you'll be left with a picture of a hand.

I think Brynn Reynolds has some clever linguistics in his Seven effect in Safwan papers.I don't really use the effect but i have used some of the ideas in other effects.

I learned how to do a full deck equivoque when I was about 11, from a book Gyles Brandreth wrote for kids.

I can remember breaking one of the rules and repeatedly doing this trick for one of my cousins (who was about 21 at the time). She never had a clue as to how it worked (in spite of what you might think of as the obvious issue) and got more and more perplexed as each time her choices led to the card I had picked that time.

I don't suggest trying that particular strategy, though! I suspect my age might have helped conceal the method. Also, because of my age I was not over-thinking it, so I am going to endorse magicarp's comment that confidence is important.

The other thing I think is vital is the timing of what you say and sometimes exactly what you say. To depart from the advice of Bananarama and the Fun Boy Three, it is what you say and the way that you say it.

I was unsure about the obviousness until I read Doc Hilford's E'voque. Firmly recommending that and also the advice to keep confident, in line with rest of patter, unconcerned.

fiftytwo wrote:I was unsure about the obviousness until I read Doc Hilford's E'voque. Firmly recommending that and also the advice to keep confident, in line with rest of patter, unconcerned.

You just beat me to it. This is an excellent option when you want to handle a dozen or so items.
T.