talkmagic.co.uk

Calling all magicians, mentalists and psychic entertainers.

I was today approached by a guy called Tushar Aggarwal asking if I would be interested in swapping some books.

The list that he wanted and was offering were all Jerome Finley books including a PDF called S.O.S. that was a very limited release to a close circle of Jerome's friends.

This guy is obliviously an out and out pirate and should be called out for it.

Please for the love of our art share this and if anyone out there can let Jerome know please do.

Thank you for reading.

Tristan

Burn him!

This is actually an interesting coincidence, I happened to stumble upon this just a few days ago.

http://www.lulu.com/shop/iain-dunford/p ... 99050.html

I hold a strange perspective, by today's standards, when it comes to the whole piracy issue. In this particular instance the clown in question is in fact a crook in that he's using material probably obtained illegally in the first place, as a kind of economic advantage via which "barter deals" (a.k.a. Horse Trading) takes place. Sadly, this is a rampant situation in today's world (not just in magic) because of the digital age and ease it gives folks for doing such but too, the fact that so much of society has sold its soul for the sake of material things.

On the other hand, I see nothing wrong with the "loaning" of book, including eBooks, amongst a small knit group of associates and at that, on a very limited basis. Such acts were common and even encouraged for years when it came to tangible books; most magic clubs having a group copy in the form of a Library, which made the bulk of old & new titles quite accessible to one and all; the Magic Castle hosting one of the largest such libraries on the planet and every member has free access to it while the majority of members donate copies of their latest offerings to it. Add to this the outrageous number of personal libraries that end up in public libraries upon the death of a one time fellow; god knows I cut my teeth on more than a few such collections in my younger days.

Sharing is part of social etiquette that we are taught as toddlers and encouraged to do through adulthood; Hoarding is bad and seen in a generally negative light both, socially as well as psychologically and we need to face the fact that many of us are terrible when it comes to hoarding; mostly out of ego and "pride" of having a coveted text or effect. In this instance however, I understand the need to "protect" our secrets and even the so-called "intellectual property" factor, which brings me back to my point on sharing and keeping it to a very limited group of individuals on an exceptionally limited basis. . . you're not randomly sending out copies of everything you get but you may share all or a part of a text with an close associate that is trying to deal with an issue said materials/knowledge will allow them to overcome. . . when you're a consultant that helps others in creating their shows, this is something that simply has its place, vocationally. There would be no quicker way to loose a contract than telling your client "I know how to do this but you need to drop $300.00 on this book over here before I can legally, ethically, (etc.) discuss it with you."

Sorry, but that's plain asinine and we all know that's not how things work in the real world.

The other side of Piracy centers on the file share torrents in which publications are available to anyone, there are no protections whatsoever. Firmly on the heels of this mass access scenario are the bootleggers in China and parts of south & central America that are pooping out props as well as texts at prices comparable to traditional wholesale, as their retail. It's horrid! This is the niche group of "Pirate" hurting the merchant side of the industry most and there seems to be no means by which to "ethically" deal with the problem; much of it being how International Policy works between our country and theirs. The American government is terrible when it comes to protecting American manufacturers and entertainment related producers/arts & crafts artisans from this grotesque level of abuse, so there's not a simple "moral" or "legal" solution when it comes to this side of the problem. Frighteningly it's nearing a gangster-like attitude akin to any other contraband situation.

Sure, name & shame those that are using bootlegged materials for the sake of personal gain, those that post said material on the torrents, etc. But think twice when it comes to the more innocent and social side of things which have their own proven sense of ethics, morality and integrity that span the breadth of time.

Craig Browning wrote:I see nothing wrong with the "loaning" of book, including eBooks, amongst a small knit group of associates...

Yes, we know.
T.

With regards to piracy, I feel as though it's wrong to photocopy and upload other people's material onto the world wide web. Letting the entire world have free access to it. This should be stopped and discouraged. I like the stance this forum has on such things. These people who do this should be shut down. I guess you could argue that this should be said for all forms of illegal uploading of files, films, music, ect. but unlike these things, magic is based on secrecy at least from the non-magic community. Having to purchase this information helps keep it that way. (I'd like to say that by comparing magic to films, ect. I wasn't condoning that either)

As for what Craig was saying about sharing of books, I feel as though this is perfectly acceptable. I'll admit that I have loaned a book as well as borrowed one or two. This is of course kept within a small knit community though. Having a magic library at a club I think is a great idea. It still means books are being brought and added, and if they are good enough, people may buy their own copies. I would if I really enjoyed a particular book. Anyway, I feel as though so long as the lending is kept within a small group of magicians then this isn't such a bad thing.

I would say though that I don't think the loaning of ebooks is such a good idea. The fact that their files means that with a click of the mouse you could have your own copy meaning that you're not borrowing you're copying.

I guess to sum up, Piracy file sharing online is bad, where as loaning among a few magician friends is acceptable.

I received this email yesterday.
The email allegedy came from a Talkmagic member and is spoofed to look like it came via Talkmagic.
I have forwarded the full email with headers and the username/email-address to Mandrake but not sure if there is anything Talkmagic can do.
The contact name was different to that in the first post.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

hey mate..... since you have a burning passion fo magic, the art of
mentalism and power of suggestion. i was wondering, if you have farewell
book or professional choice 3 by jerome finley ...? .. if you are fine
with
it, we can exchange it for any book which i have mentioned below ..

let me know if are you interested in forbidden mentalism , pc1,
professional choice 2 , full mind contact reading (300 pages )by jerome
finley ... along with his private manuscript 's.o.s' (250 pages ) having
never published mentalism which was shared only with 30 people in his
inner
circle ..
the fact that "s.o.s" is so heavily guarded speaks volumes about the
contents inside..


if you interested in the power of suggestion, i also have the copy of
thought veil which is more than thousand pages, incuding the bonuses ..
last but not the least , the full taboo treatise version of 200 pages .
of late, sm spending much time reading midnight side of mind by paul
voodini and its sequel ...check this out at his website

if you find this to be mutually beneficial, we can share to help each
other.. please get in touch .. if you have any books on wish list, let me
know .. i have a good collection too..get in touch at <email address>

I'm sure Jerome would want to hear about this. It sounds like one of those 30 people in his "inner circle" is not quite the friend he thought.

The sharing thing is tricky. If you had a limited release book (say 100 copies), there is a reason you issued so few. If it were merely a case of making as much money as possible, you wouldn't make it such a limited edition (even though such books can command a larger price, in many cases the author could make a much greater profit by selling more books at a lower price). I wouldn't regard keeping such a book or manuscript to oneself as hoarding, more as respecting the writer's wishes. It's just my take on it.

Historically, magicians have always shared with associates, but they haven't shared everything.

People who offer swaps of mentalism or magic books are usually hoarders/collectors for whom the acquisition is its own reward. I'd be surprised if most of them had used even 10% of what they have accumulated. (Figure plucked from the air at random.)

i find most sharing of magic is purely verbal between magicians. Exchanging ideas in brainstorming sessions at conventions or in a pub rather than physically exchanging books/dvds.
If I like what I hear I would probably go and buy the book/dvd to get more tips, hints or other similar ideas.
Half the ideas I hear about dont apply to my style or my skills, so I would not buy the book/dvd/gizmo.
It is a form of social advertising for a magician's work rather than blatant stealing.

I also value the reviews on this site. Unlike a discussion in a pub they are more formal and carefully worded to avoid exposure, but this is also a great way to socialise ideas which help me decide which books/dvds to buy.

'Richardreading' turns out not to be a current member of TM but he's obviously received one of our very rare mass emails and copied the format to make it look convincing. Needless to say any suggestions of swapping or trading books etc won't be from any of the TM Admins or Mods.

T0M wrote:With regards to piracy, I feel as though it's wrong to photocopy and upload other people's material onto the world wide web. Letting the entire world have free access to it. This should be stopped and discouraged. I like the stance this forum has on such things. These people who do this should be shut down. I guess you could argue that this should be said for all forms of illegal uploading of files, films, music, ect. but unlike these things, magic is based on secrecy at least from the non-magic community. Having to purchase this information helps keep it that way. (I'd like to say that by comparing magic to films, ect. I wasn't condoning that either)

I agree 110% on this.

As for what Craig was saying about sharing of books, I feel as though this is perfectly acceptable. I'll admit that I have loaned a book as well as borrowed one or two. This is of course kept within a small knit community though. Having a magic library at a club I think is a great idea. It still means books are being brought and added, and if they are good enough, people may buy their own copies. I would if I really enjoyed a particular book. Anyway, I feel as though so long as the lending is kept within a small group of magicians then this isn't such a bad thing.

When I was younger (and I'm confident it is still happening) two or three of us would split the cost on a book that carried a hefty price tag and the book belonged to all involved. By today's "let's make diamonds with our *rse" attitude, this is unethical and wrong. The truth to be known, it's more a matter of a writer's control issues and greed, it has little to do with anything other. Then again, most of the books available to us in my youth were "legit" -- they went through a vetting process that very few releases these days ever get a glimpse of thanks to self-publishing advantages. Some of the things I've actually spent money on proving gross disappointments and in some ways, the materials gifted me have given similar affects of duplicity -- that would be to say, the feeling of rehash and in some cases, purest plagiarism.

I would say though that I don't think the loaning of ebooks is such a good idea. The fact that their files means that with a click of the mouse you could have your own copy meaning that you're not borrowing you're copying.

Admittedly, this is a sticky-wicket in that you're in a damned if you do/damned if you don't position. I go back to what I've stated (you've echoed) earlier, So long as it is not habit and stays within a niche group of less than a dozen souls (my group contains fewer that 6) then there is no real harm done because all involved adhere to the same precepts. And do understand, the people I have exchanges with are well known personalities for the most part; established and trusted individuals. So this is a matter of conscience and based on how much you trust those within you own circle to not betray your trust when it comes to one-on-one sharing.

Oh! The eMail thing mentioned earlier. I've seen similar eMails come in for other forums I belong to. At least two of these were phishing expeditions. IN other instances I've found my address book copied by some unknown source and bogus hustles sent out. .. this has likewise come back via a friend's address to me. I caused a great deal of grief between me and another once close friend a few years back, so be aware in that it's becoming a popular tactic.

Pirates of all types are low life rascles who don't deserve the air that they breath. My thoughts on this matter are simple, if you didn't buy it then you don't perform it. I know a very good fellow with whom I do exchange ideas, mostly these are effect of our own devising but simple rules of etiquette dictate that if he does happen to show me a marketed effect or I happen to gain something from a DVD disk that we watch, I'll not perform it or develop the idea unless I purchase the source material for myself.

This topic has been discussed at length before... ftopic31905.php

About a year a go I went after this guy Tushar at the Cafe. In response he put a curse on me giving me just six months to live.

I am happy to announce that I am still alive.

Mr C... I think this may be the same person. I am sure i saw that as part of his user name.