talkmagic.co.uk

Hi there,

A couple of months ago I got into the bobbie of card magic, and haven't stopped since. I bought a few card specific books, which are great! I was looking at purchasing a few new resources but was wondering your opinions on their suitability for a relatively new guy.

I would like to get an insight into some mentalism stuff, as I would prefer to hone my people skills if you like, rather than spend ages working on flourishes and sleights, which I just don't seem to be able to pick up particularly well.
I am told the best way to do this is by purchasing Rich Ferguson's 'This is Mentalism'. Some of the content looks incredible, but is it suitable for a relatively new beginner?

The other product I was interested in asking you about was Mike Rose's 'The Grail' which is such an awesome trick. Are the moves (if any) difficult and would someone with an OK handling of cards be able to do them?

If there are any other brilliant tricks that require seemingly little skill, like 'The Grail', please do let me know as I am about to place an order with magic shop.co.uk

Many thanks,

Ranald

I started with 13 steps to mentalism. This gives you a solid grounding in the subject. I don't use cards in mentalism so cannot comment on The Grail.

How does 13 steps compare to This is Mentalism? I prefer learning from video over words, so would This is Mentalism be more appropriate?

As I have said elsewhere on the forum, I have no intention to go pro - all I want to get out of magic is a repertoire of impressive looking tricks to perform in front of family and friends.

Cheers,

Ranald

IF you want to REALLY learn ANY magic Ranald--then for heaven's sake go to BOOKS FIRST.
DVDS, Videos are fine for studying how a move etc is handled or for seeing performances as opposed to trying to learn effects from a DVD etc.
Books will make your own mind--work. With any newbie--you are in great danger with DVDS of just COPYING that performer's style for the effect you are trying to learn.

This is ONE of the reasons that can make Magic a BORE to a lot of lay people.
The performer's style, on the DVD, is NOT YOUR style.

Also with a book you can turn back a page quicker than you can try to scroll back on a DVD

AND for !!!!!!! sake again-- please remember that lay people CAN be put off by TOO many card tricks. Cards, in, opinion, unless handled expertly in both manipulation, ROUTINE & being entertaning--are a Big Turn off for many of the Public.

Newbies often tend to go with a deck of cards because it is the easiest prop to carry around.

MENTALISM. MOST beginners start with Annemann's Practical Mental Magic--a paper back copy of this will give you time tested ideas and principles and is much cheaper than a DVD


Allen Tipton

Ranald wrote:How does 13 steps compare to This is Mentalism? I prefer learning from video over words, so would This is Mentalism be more appropriate?

As I have said elsewhere on the forum, I have no intention to go pro - all I want to get out of magic is a repertoire of impressive looking tricks to perform in front of family and friends.

Cheers,

Ranald

This is mentalism gives you some mental magic effects that you can go and perform pretty quickly, 13 Steps and Anneman's practical mental magic give you theory and the basics( and not so basics!) so you can perform mentalism rather than just effects.
If you want impressive looking tricks then I'm not sure mentalism is what you are looking for!

Allen is right; if you confine yourself to DVDs you will severely limit yourself. Read Practical Mental Effects by Theo Anneman, and 13 Steps. Then decide where you want to specialise.

Thanks for your help everyone. I will strongly consider what you have said.

Nobody has commented on 'The Grail', is this a technically difficult trick?

Thanks all.

Ranald wrote:Thanks for your help everyone. I will strongly consider what you have said.

Nobody has commented on 'The Grail', is this a technically difficult trick?

Thanks all.

Review here:
ftopic7433.php

RANALD: Here is a piece of advice I found 5 minutes ago-from Paul Daniels.

Paul Daniels: Learning magic from books is harder than watching a DVD, there's no doubt about that, but it is a SO much better method. When you learn from a DVD you see another performer and tend to copy his/her style and you become a clone. When you learn from a book you see yourself doing the performance and you become a 'new' performer. Your imagination develops the pictures in your mind, and imagination is the core source of magic.

Nuff' said

Allen Tipton

Agree with the books comments. When I started many years ago now I had DVDs inc. Royal Road To Card Magic which is epic BUT some of the most useful things I found were in a bag of old books I was given by a retired amature magician. I reviewed a few on here;

ftopic11615.php

There is one I still pick up from time to time. I like books because as well as the techniques which yes can be easier to see on TV you get the theory, the story behind things.

Allen Tipton wrote:IF you want to REALLY learn ANY magic Ranald--then for heaven's sake go to BOOKS FIRST.
DVDS, Videos are fine for studying how a move etc is handled or for seeing performances as opposed to trying to learn effects from a DVD etc.
Books will make your own mind--work. With any newbie--you are in great danger with DVDS of just COPYING that performer's style for the effect you are trying to learn.

This is ONE of the reasons that can make Magic a BORE to a lot of lay people.
The performer's style, on the DVD, is NOT YOUR style.

Also with a book you can turn back a page quicker than you can try to scroll back on a DVD

AND for !!!!!!! sake again-- please remember that lay people CAN be put off by TOO many card tricks. Cards, in, opinion, unless handled expertly in both manipulation, ROUTINE & being entertaning--are a Big Turn off for many of the Public.

Newbies often tend to go with a deck of cards because it is the easiest prop to carry around.

MENTALISM. MOST beginners start with Annemann's Practical Mental Magic--a paper back copy of this will give you time tested ideas and principles and is much cheaper than a DVD


Allen Tipton

Can i just add my two penneth worth to this, i started with cards because i love cards and agree with Allen that they are the easiest thing to carry around, but if I'm honest, i haven't had anybody put off by me producing a pack of cards, personally i feel that magicians and cards go hand in hand, but i always ensure to make my card routines a nice combination of entertaining, flourishy, fun and most of all magicial, even the most simple of card effects can be magical with the right presentation.

With regard to mentalism, i found mentalism with cards a good place to start as obviously i already have my grounding in cards, also Karl Fulves self working mental magic is a nice resource, i know i previously slated it, but upon returning to it, have found some good ideas for starting in mental magic.

Much love

Aza

'I haven't had anybody put off by me doing cards' or words to that effect.
Are you really sure Aza?
Was this to friends?
Have you tried it on paying customers?
The best way to catch what your captive audience REALLY THINKS--is to have a pocket recorder with you.
Record your performances and/or that little showing of tricks you carry out
THEN LISTEN to their reactions. Without the sight of your hands, face & body which would have been there IF you had used a cam corder.
It is their reactions you NEED to LISTEN to.
May surprise you.

Of course you may be a consumate professional but have you had--comments from people you do not know?
It is a life long quest to establish yourself and your Magic with ANY audience.

The problem is--magicians love showing off their Magic.WE all love Magic
The public does not always like seeing Magic.
And one of the greatest reasons for this--at times--complete dislike of magic IS
Magicians themselves.

We just get caught up in our own little world and can be oblivious to those who do not want to get caught up in it.
At the Magic Club--yes. At the Magic Convention--yes. There EVERYONE WANTS to see Magic, Magic, Magic.
BUT unless you are an amateur doing stuff for friends/relatives You must always look to THE REAL WORLD.

And that is my final comment on this.

Allen Tipton

Allen Tipton wrote:'I haven't had anybody put off by me doing cards' or words to that effect.
Are you really sure Aza?
Was this to friends?
Have you tried it on paying customers?
The best way to catch what your captive audience REALLY THINKS--is to have a pocket recorder with you.
Record your performances and/or that little showing of tricks you carry out
THEN LISTEN to their reactions. Without the sight of your hands, face & body which would have been there IF you had used a cam corder.
It is their reactions you NEED to LISTEN to.
May surprise you.

Of course you may be a consumate professional but have you had--comments from people you do not know?
It is a life long quest to establish yourself and your Magic with ANY audience.

The problem is--magicians love showing off their Magic.WE all love Magic
The public does not always like seeing Magic.
And one of the greatest reasons for this--at times--complete dislike of magic IS
Magicians themselves.

We just get caught up in our own little world and can be oblivious to those who do not want to get caught up in it.
At the Magic Club--yes. At the Magic Convention--yes. There EVERYONE WANTS to see Magic, Magic, Magic.
BUT unless you are an amateur doing stuff for friends/relatives You must always look to THE REAL WORLD.

And that is my final comment on this.

Allen Tipton

I do stuff with complete strangers everyday at the pier and so far no negative comments to my face, but i like to idea of the pocket recorder Allen, i'll PM you about this!!

Perhaps i have been lucky and of course there are people who do not wish to see magic, when approached, but i will just accept this, wish them a lovely day and move on to the next family/person etc.

Much love

Aza

Try Animal or Disney cartoon character cards for the kids & any family group

Allen Tipton

As a quick answer to the question about the Grail, yes this is a very good trick. It doesn't require any serious sleight of hand just a piece of memory work. I bought this at Blackpool last year from Alakazam having had it deemed to me by Peter Nardi.

The thing is that this, along with every other trick you will ever perform is all about how you perform not what you are performing. This is a trick with a bit of patter needed and which you need to talk your spectator through. If you want to see another example of this watch Peter Nardi (again) dem Random. A bit like the Grail it is a trick with a story. These are tricks you can't hurry, you are not going to get out on the bar of the pub to show mates. As a walk around magician I always carry both but may not use either at a gig.

Much advice has already been given here about good sources for starting points. Mentalism you will find requires a good command of your audience and a very good command of the effect you are trying to pull off. 90% of what is in 13 steps is food and drink to any magician to do. It takes something more to be able to perform it. I only dabble with Mentalism, I have not yet plucked up the courage to abandon my sponge bunnies and ID and commit myself to this particular discipline.

Good luck with whatever you do but try to remember that doing something simple very well will always be more impressive that doing something difficult moderately well