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No, it's not a new dance craze sweeping the nation. It's a question I have in relation to a false shuffle. I did post this question elsewhere on the forum but it's probably best placed here.

In ETMMM and his 13 steps DVD Richard Osterlind performs many false shuffles. However, there is one in particular that I am interested in. I know the shuffle to be false because I've seen him do it when I now for a fact he is using a stack. It's basically a simple farrow suffle that he does whilst standing up, using his leg to support it. He does other false shuffles that I'm familiar with but this one's got me stumped. Does anyone know the name of this shuffle or where it is taught.

Many thanks in advance of your superior knowledge!

Kevmundo

Its just a basic false shuffle from one of the Tarbell Volumes, no idea which one though. It's taught on Mind Mysteries Vol 2 as well.

phillipnorthfield wrote:Its just a basic false shuffle from one of the Tarbell Volumes, no idea which one though. It's taught on Mind Mysteries Vol 2 as well.

That's another DVD I'll have to buy then. That Osterlind guy has made a fortune out of me this year!!

kevmundo wrote:

phillipnorthfield wrote:Its just a basic false shuffle from one of the Tarbell Volumes, no idea which one though. It's taught on Mind Mysteries Vol 2 as well.

That's another DVD I'll have to buy then. That Osterlind guy has made a fortune out of me this year!!

It's in vol.1 of Tarbell, which is not a DVD.

Barry

He does explain it , i think its on the Live and without a safety net DVD. I wouldnt use it thats for sure. Its not a Faro shuffle either and is about the worst false shuffle i have ever seen.. but thats just me

if it works for him i suppose that i may be wrong as evolution usually weeds out the duff moves

It just seems like it was designed for a convention of drunks

I saw Jack Delvin use it at The Magic Circle. It fooled me. It looks so casual and innocent that it couldn't possibly be dodgy - unlike a faro shuffle, which is as dodgy-looking as they come. We come back to the age-old question: do you want to be seen as working magic (mentalism, in my case) or as an expert card-handler?

Barry

I agree. I think any shuffle in mentalism that looks like your doing a 'move' should be avoided at all costs. I want people who see me perform anything to think I'm totally c*** (not the best) at cards. I even make a point of saying how rubbish I am with them. That's why I like this shuffle as its the sort of shuffle someone would do who wasnt any good with cards. It fooled me, and it certainly fooled his audience!

ya , it fooled an L&L Crowd. No gold medals there im afraid

Anyway i didnt think that this thread was aimed at Mindreaders and was just a general chat about shuffles.

Anyway , its a bold shuffle , and if it works for you in this context then good luck

I couldn't see anyone getting away with it here I'm afraid.

Maybe a small addition making it like a Zarrow would add to the illusion, but there's much better shuffles out there that look basic and are easy to do. False Overhands from Royal Road to Card Magic would be a good place to start. Overhands just look more natural than riffles anyway, if you're looking to suggest that you can't handle cards, it's the way to go. Looks better as well as you don't have to raise you're leg and bend over rather inelegantly.

My 2p

phillipnorthfield wrote:I couldn't see anyone getting away with it here I'm afraid.

Maybe a small addition making it like a Zarrow would add to the illusion, but there's much better shuffles out there that look basic and are easy to do. False Overhands from Royal Road to Card Magic would be a good place to start. Overhands just look more natural than riffles anyway, if you're looking to suggest that you can't handle cards, it's the way to go. Looks better as well as you don't have to raise you're leg and bend over rather inelegantly.

My 2p

I can't get on with RRTCM. It makes me want to kill myself!! However, I've asked my lovely wife to buy me Paul Wilsons 5 DVD set for christmas. Hopefully it'll teach me a shuffle that doesn't look like a 'move.'

Antera wrote:ya , it fooled an L&L Crowd. No gold medals there im afraid

Anyway i didnt think that this thread was aimed at Mindreaders and was just a general chat about shuffles.

Anyway , its a bold shuffle , and if it works for you in this context then good luck

You can't beat L&L audiences. If I could afford it I would hire frank to appear with me as a spectator so that at the end of every effect he could go - "Aaaaaaarrrgghhhhh, Aaaaaaaarrrrrggghhhhhhh, Aaaaaarrrrrgghhhhh." you can't put a price on that!!!!!

The shuffle in question is perfectly serviceable. Indeed, it is the only shuffle Kreskin uses on stage.

If it is the one I think it is then it is a perfectly good false shuffle. It is described in Greater Magic. Eddie Tullock the famous trade show magician used it his whole career. I have done it myself and it works perfectly well. Osterlind shouldn't use his knee though. Quite inelegant and unnecessary. Personally if I were to do a false shuffle and there was no table available I would use the optical shuffle from the Royal Road to Card Magic.

mark lewis wrote:If it is the one I think it is then it is a perfectly good false shuffle. It is described in Greater Magic. Eddie Tullock the famous trade show magician used it his whole career. I have done it myself and it works perfectly well. Osterlind shouldn't use his knee though. Quite inelegant and unnecessary. Personally if I were to do a false shuffle and there was no table available I would use the optical shuffle from the Royal Road to Card Magic.

I agree with everything you've said. However, part of me thinks that the inelegance (is that even a word) of the move is what attracts me to it. Using your leg to support a shuffle does look scrappy and unprofessional. But on some level doesn't that add to the fact that as a mentalist you want the audience to treat anything you do with the cards as inconsequential? I think that's the real difficulty with cards in mentalism - you have to be an expert but not handle the cards in an expert way. I think this places serious limitations on the 'moves' that can be convincingly done, and maintain the illusion. I've watched Osterlinds shuffle over and over again. Now I'm no expert but I understand the rudimentaries of card magic, and I still can't see what he's doing.

It's an interesting quandary. For example, I've always resisted learning how to fan the cards (even though I know that this has enormous practicalities in performance situations) just because, like flourishes, it looks like you're an expert with cards. I'd rather drop a few cards and complain about how butter-fingered I am than show a wonderful flourish, since, I'm supposed to be reading minds, not doing tricks. With that in mind I'm always on the lookout for sleights that look 'sloppy,' for want of a better expression. If I can't perform a sleight without it looking like I'm doing a move then I pass it over. Maybe I'm approaching this in totally the wrong way and I'd certainly welcome any thoughts from those more experienced than me. I just think mentalists and magicians do, and should approach card sleights in different ways.

Kevmundo

If you really want a sloppy false shuffle I think the best one is the Charlier Shuffle also described in the Royal Road to Card Magic. Mind you, I do think it is better with a small packet of cards but it will work with the full deck.

I take your point that the inelegant knee business is appropriate for a mentalist. I just think it lacks something from a stage presence point of view. For example, I bet you would never have seen the great Dunninger shuffle a pack of cards on his knee.