talkmagic.co.uk

We often hear the old expression, The quickness of the hand deceives the eye

a) Does it?

b) Is there any need for such swift 'moves'

c) Has anyone had experience that the statement is true or untrue?

Mandrake wrote:We often hear the old expression, The quickness of the hand deceives the eye

a) Does it?

b) Is there any need for such swift 'moves'

c) Has anyone had experience that the statement is true or untrue?

I once made a mistake with a billet fold and I invited the spec to check that the billet was folded and couldn't be seen through. They confirmed this as I realised my mistake. I chatted to them as I re-opened and re-folded it in my hand - all done very slowly in plain sight. I aways find the eye is drawn to movement which is the premise behind most misdirection. The classic pass is another fine example of slow execution being better than lightening speed. My pass is slow, casual and done on the offbeat. If I ever try to do it to fast people look straight at my hands. I would say that slow and accurate with misdirection wins every time!

K

I once saw a demonstration of the idea that the hand is quicker than the eye on TV - I think it was on the original How. A magician was throwing balls of paper over his shoulder to vanish them and the only person who couldn't see what was happening was Fred Dinage, who was intently burning the bloke's hands. Very impressive, and the studio floor was littered with balls of paper!

I just got Stars of Magic and it has Slydinis Flight of the Paper Balls, lots of people make the mistake of throwing the balls at speed, slydini slowly tips the balls. If I am doing anything slow its always on the offbeat to be on the safe side.

Rushing something is always a recipe for disaster, much better to take things slowly and time the moment. I think that misdirection is much more effective, my card slights are hopeless at best but if I time things properly and get the misdirection right I can get away with just about anything.

I suppose it may depend on the type of effects you are performing, but none of my mentalism requires a fast hand (or a fast mind, for that matter)
T.

a) Does it? Yes. None of this stuff will bear scrutiny when slowed down to super slowmo (at least, not without cover):
Strike vanish, Snap change, flipstick, Shapeshifter change, silk through mike stand (and other silk effects sharing that method), and arguably the common coin gaff named after a dolphin. Also that shakey thing some people do when one billiard ball becomes two.
b) Are they really necessary? Not really since there are alternatives to all of them - but the point of all of these is to do nicely visual things with little or no cover. Best avoided on film but extremely good in person. Horses for courses.
c) Experience? I'm a fan of both flipstick and that coin gaff so yeah, I'd say it's true, for those examples. But - slower is generally better and even these things (I think) all look better when the surrounding stuff is done at a relaxed, sedate pace. Especially with flipstick, there are several other (slower, bigger) movements going on that deceive the eye (either toss up and away from you, or break over the knee).

It's not that these things are literally faster than the eye is capable of "seeing", it's that they're fast enough to escape perception when accompanied by other distracting factors. On the general speed in performance point, I definitely agree that slower is better. I think that quite a lot of the time audiences are just nodding and smiling, trying to look like they're keeping up and hoping they don't have to answer any questions later. Certainly that's what I'm thinking most of the time when I'm in the audience.

So I'm in the "Yes" camp. The quickness of the hand does deceive the eye.

In literal terms the saying is false. There is physically nothing we can do, that is any physical motion our hand can make that can decieve the eye. So what we have left is decieving the brain. And that is not difficult. We just have to understand what we have learned, how we have trained our brain to percieve something, and then stand that on it's ear.

Paper balls over the head is a great example. Seeing as the entire audience can see what is going on and can understand can percieve what is going on proves the point. What the magician is doing is focusing/training the one spectators mind on where the magician wants that spectator to look, (or understand). If the magician were to speed the action up in the process of tossing the ball then the spectator would catch on because the eye and mind would be attracted to the change in tempo. The retention vanish works the same way as does a false transfer such as the goshman vanish, where he tosses the coin from one hand to the other, the hands are a foot away from each other, and the coin never goes. But people will swear it does. We train the brain to work this way and the perception of what is happening is so engrained that even when we show that the coin is not tossed. You or the spectator if honest will swear they see the coin in flight when it is not. The eye however knows, its the brain that does not.

Train the brain and the eye will submit. Every time.

You did mention that if you slow everything down then non of it will bear scrutiney. Which in a lot of cases is true. But think about that. You are still changing the pace. If you speed something up you will attract the mind and alert the eye, the same if you go really slow, as in slow motion, you are refocusing the brain on the action. At normal speed we toss a coin and the brain doesn't have to complete the motion, it knows that the coin is being tossed and makes up the rest so we can do other things. It is a given that the coin is tossed. If we slow it down or speed it up it is un-natual and the mind takes a second look.

Now here is where it all gets interesting. I know a guy who plays on this very well. And in his act he says we will slow this down so you can follow. Then he does a funny bit where he slows it down like slow mo on tv. His words are dragged out his actions are dragged out. And he does the next bit of the routine in this slow motion form and in this form and in just a moment or two he re-trains the brain to see everything in this new context and he fools you again every darn time.

Granted the man is a Master in every sense of the word. Was taught by Slydini and has been doing this for 60 yrs now, he has routines published in Frank Garcia's book, The Man With The Million Dollar Hands so he is no slouch but the point is it works in slow mo because he changes the entire dynamic and the mind now expects to see it this way, so it does without a hitch.

Sometimes - p****e moves, for example. But they are the exception.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_KpYDRV ... egid5jQfVA

Barry

Mind you, one of the great joys in magic is meeting someone who can do an invisible pass. A big-grin-clap-handies moment!

I can do an invisible pass. There. Would you like to see it again?

Mandrake wrote:We often hear the old expression, The quickness of the hand deceives the eye

a) Does it?

b) Is there any need for such swift 'moves'

c) Has anyone had experience that the statement is true or untrue?

Nice topic Mandrake

As to the question at hand, the answer is both yes and no. We as practicing magi know this to be untrue because of our technical knowledge and performing experience. With swift moves comes suspicion. However for the audience, the answer is 'yes', due to the received knowledge of common folklore. Everybody 'knows' that 'sleight-of'hand' and 'The quickness of the hand deceives the eye' are just two sides of the same coin. That is why fast moves are suspicious. It's at that point people suspect you of trying to take advantage of the fact that 'The quickness of the hand deceives the eye'.

This is something the performer can use when devising presentational strategies. Indeed, the great Rene Lavand bases an entire routine around this principle ("I can't do it any slower!", an Oil & Water effect). The presentation works because most people believe the fact that 'The quickness of the hand deceives the eye', which is subverted by Rene's common remonstration that "I can't do it any slower!" each time the colours separate.

I agree on Rene Lavand. The guy is a gem in the annals of magic history, not only one handed but as slow and deliberate as you like! You really cannot do it any slower!"

Perhaps the phrase should be, 'The skill of the hand deceives the eye'. ?

Skill period, deceives the eye! Fast = questioning. So basically it comes down to the old old thing of 'misdirection'. Many a time I have 'stolen' in front of someone watching me (a phone, a lighter, anything visible sort of thing) by doing so slowly, and with a natural patter. By making them think whilst they are watching me I have had some hilarious consequences!!

best one was when I was chatting to two friends at a table in the pub. I slowly and deliberately palmed ones phone and then under the pretence of adjusting the others top (bare in mind she was a very buxom lady) I dropped said phone between her cleavage. At the hint of coldness she asked if I had just fondled so I played along and said yes I couldn't resist it!

Anyway, she goes to the bar and we start phoning the phone (because friend a thought she'd 'lost' it). Friend b was at bar and barman asks 'Is your phone ringing', she checks and says no. He asks are you sure. She said yes, so he then said 'Why are your tits flashing then!!??'

Absolutely hilarious at the time and still laughed about today!!