talkmagic.co.uk

Hi there,

I've been thinking over this issue and discussing with a few performer friends recently, and just wondered if anyone else has had the same experiences that I've had.

A quick background to me (as it's been years since I joined this site and introduced myself).

I'm a part-time professional magician and mind reader.

I say professional, as I run my own magic business - with myself as a performer. My market is largely weddings, but a fair proportion of my work also includes private functions and corporate entertainment. I run my business as professionally as I would if I were to do this full time, where a large proportion of my time is spent on marketing, meeting clients, attending trade shows / wedding fayres and so on.

In addition to this, I'm a consultant for a large global company, and have a marketing, business development role, as well as occasional technical report writing - drawing on my past experience.

This is my current choice and preference as to how to earn my living. I did have the chance to become a full time magician a year or so ago, but I've deliberately chosen to undertaken the consultancy work as well as the performing, as I enjoy that work, it's a nice balance (my whole life isn't just spent doing one thing) and there are many crossover skills I can apply to one from the other (e.g. visual and oral presentations, interviews, marketing, client liaison, technology and business meetings - all help my magic business - and from the other viewpoint, my interpersonal skills, performance skills and presenting all help my consultancy work).

I have many bookings each month as a magician and mind reader - often close-up, but also parlour shows. I perform virtually every week, and in the busy seasons - a number of times a week.

Now my issue /observation is this - I continually encounter a massive negative attiude from other magicians / mind readers because I'm a part-time performer. Not always directly to me, but often in what I read (interviews and promotional literature). There seems to be a worrying growing trend of performers undercutting each other - offering price promises and trashing rival quotes by scaring off potential clients.

I've had one performer try and sabotage a number of my quotes by telling my prospecive client "don't book him - he's only part time - he's not got the same expereince as me being full time, he therefore won't be polished and if he was any good he'd be able to earn a living from doing magic full time".

I also know a full time well known pro that whenever he loses a quote - he call them up and say, that's fine you didn't book me, but who did you go for - I know a lot of people in this business and I can tell you if they are any good. He'll then trash that person (sometimes using the 'he's not a full-time pro like me' line and massively undercut their quote.

I'm not knocking healthy competition - but there's more than enough work out there for all of us if you just look hard enough!

I see this a lot also when some magicians post 'guides' on wedding website about 'how to book a wedding magican'. They completley trash anyone who doesn't do this full time.

Many full time pro's I know suppliment their income by writing magic books, releasing magic effects, mentoring other new magicians by running courses, doing hypnotherapy, and so on.

So why is that acceptable, but to have a 'different' or 'non-magic' profession not?

I know that I am a good performer and I always receive excellent feedback (but I know there is always room for improvement!). I come from a professioal background where I used to spend my day job talking to clients, making presentations and holding the attention of an audience - all of which I've brought to my magic and approach my magic business in a professional way.

I'm not sure what my point is - it's a bit of a rant, but I wondered what the view of other part-time magicians is - if they've encountered this, and also what full time magicians think.

Cheers,

Some years ago we had an observation from an American magician who was, and still is, well known as a performer and lecturer - no names, no pack drill! His point was that the vast majority of performers on the US circuits either had a part time non-magic 'job' or a partner earning a large enough salary to look after two people. He was quite categorical in saying that few performers earn enough to actually live on so a steady side income is necessary. In his case, he was quite open and said that if his wife didn't have such a good paying job he couldn't carry on being a 'professional' magician.

My view is best described by way of analogy. Last year I put my house up for sale. I got an estate agent to come round, do a valuation and put it on the market. After only a week the agent had called asking me to drop the price. I then called a few other estate agents and asked them to come around and value the house. After a cursory exploration of the house their attention immediately turned to which agent I had been using. They then began a sustained character assassination about why the other estate agent was no good.

At first I listened. When the second agent came around and did the same thing I thought it must be a coincindence. When the third agent did the same thing I cottoned on. When the fourth agent came around I waited in anticipation. After less then four minutes he began attacking the other agents in the area. He was more concerned with telling me how awful all the other agents were, than telling me what he could do for me. I just laughed!

It's the same with political parties. They don't tell you what they'll do, they just attack their opponents. Regarding magic, if it's someone's full time profession they will be naturally protective and want to maximise their client base. All well and good. As far as I'm concerned, I'll take bookings because I'm reasonably priced, and good (my opinion!!). If someone wants to book someone else then that's up to them. I don't drop my price and I never criticise anyone else. I sell my product, not denigrate someone else. But I am part time and have another job to supply a regular income. My hope in time is to make the transition to full time. I dont see any difference.

If you fell ill holding your chest and a part time heart surgeon offered assisstance, I doub't he'd be turned away. It's just snobbery and greed. After all, there are plenty of full time magicians who are bloody awful!!!! It seems to me you have the right balance for you, and that's all that matters.

K

There is a lot of snobery in magic. There are far too many magicians who see themselves as better than others because they're full time or perhaps the style of magic is more sophisticated than someone elses or that they've written a book so must be an expert. It's one of the things that I really hate it all and there's no need for it.

There are some really amazing magicians out there full time and part time and to go along with what Mandrake said, I happen to know a very well known and respected magician who does a second job aside from the magic. I happen to have a friend who's a brilliant magician, he's never performed a gig, he's never performed for an audience except for friends at parties but he's brilliant, far better than many 'pros' that I've seen. Just because someone's a pro doesn't mean that they're any good. And the same the other way around, just because someone isn't pro doesn't mean that they're rubbish.

Im also part time by choice. I can simply make a lot more money doing my regular job and magic. for now thats fine.

If you are good enough, and enough of a character to be remembered, I think you'll get recommendations and work like that. If any potential client ever says 'well i called so and so who will do it cheaper' i simply say that that is his act, and the value of his act. My act is different, and thats why I am priced differently.

I never put any negative spin on another performer. you wont know them well enough, and character assassination makes you seem like a dick. if you seem like a dick, you wont get bookings anyway.

improve yourself and your media to LOOK way better. If they look at your website and it is AMAZING and you have incredible vids/pics/feedback on there, they can see the gulf in class for themselves. thats all you can do. Improve you not belittle others.

On a side note, do gigs for free for good feedback. I have done free gigs for Tottenham Hotspur, Yeovil FC, WHSmith, BMW (local dealers) etc etc. I literally ring up and ask if they have an event, and tell them i will do it for free if they will give me a few quotes for my website, and if i can take pics/vids.

I even give them the pics of the event so they get something else from the deal. Boom.. insanely good feedback from famous brands.

You can do as much, or as little paid or unpaid magic as you want. Just dont lie about it to your fellow magicians.

There are hundreds, possibly thousands out there that for some reason do.

Which is just plain stupid. Its not a competition, its a hobby, and interest, a way of life, and for the lucky ones, a job.

We're also bathed in a world of superlatives - tricks are 'mind blowing',' reputation makers', the 'uiltimate'. Performances are often 'award winning' and 'fried' the specs so I guess it's understandable that a little embellishing creeps into things, even amongst fellow magicians. Daft really but there you go....

There is little need to overly embelish your achievements and it's something that I've never understood. Be true and honest, we're all on the same road it's just that some are further along it than others. We should all have respect for our fellow wonder workers, be they newcommers eager to learn the art or seasoned veterans. It was once said that a wise man can always learn from a fool but a fool can never learn from a wise man.

daleshrimpton wrote:You can do as much, or as little paid or unpaid magic as you want. Just dont lie about it to your fellow magicians.

There are hundreds, possibly thousands out there that for some reason do.

Which is just plain stupid. Its not a competition, its a hobby, and interest, a way of life, and for the lucky ones, a job.

Fantastic answer. I have a part time job working for a council and I go into Primary schools instructing Children. I love my job, I don't work School Holidays apart from private work, and I get bookings for Childrens parties through it. I can do as little as I like or as much as I like so it fits in to my other chosen path. I have a great balance, most of the time.
I have had one occasion where a potential client dropped out and the reason she gave was that a full time Magician in the local area slated me saying that I was just playing at it and I was not good enough to become a Full time Pro. She didn't want to "take a chance." Her loss. You win some and you lose some. I get enough repeat business and most other work comes from word of mouth so if some idiot is so desperate for work that he has to run me down to get it, then let him carry on. He probably has a small Penis anyway.

I don't seem to have too much competition in my area, or perhaps i am just satisfied with the amount of work I get. I am very much part time, I have a full time day job which pays the bills. I believe that my charges are quite moderate, I don't actually have knowledge of other rates being charged in my area. Most of my work comes as a result of me being seen at my Sunday residency and handing out business cards. I am also open to doing free gigs for carity, I did a couple last summer which I enjoyed and treated as another advertisemnt for my services. People I perform for are often surprised that I don't earn my main living from magic but then again they don't see magicians perform very often. I perform because I enjoy it, I love the fact that people are willing to pay me to perform. As to Mandrakes point about superlatives I couldn't agree more. I am not out to blow anybodys mind or to burn my spectators I am out to entertain them and make them feel even better about what should be an enjoyable experience, having a meal out, attending a wedding etc, any way. I do vary my performance and buy new tricks but mostly because I personally bore too easilly and need new stuff to move on to. Some days I think it would be great to have enough business to give up the day job but then I think again and realise that relying on performing magic to put dinner on the table could be pretty hairy. I am a part time magician, I am pleased to be a part time magician but I don't think I am any less of a magician because I am part time.

Mandrake wrote:We're also bathed in a world of superlatives - tricks are 'mind blowing',' reputation makers', the 'uiltimate'. Performances are often 'award winning' and 'fried' the specs so I guess it's understandable that a little embellishing creeps into things, even amongst fellow magicians. Daft really but there you go....

Very true. Today I noticed a World Magic Shop advert promoting a forthcoming release - "The reactions were unbelievable and this utility device is guranteed to take your routines to the next level totally destroying laymen"

lol!

Thanks for all the advice and support that everyone has given here.

Your answers have been really helpful and supportive and they've made me do a lot of thinking.

I think that perhaps because of pressure from some members of the wider magic community, both direct and what I read, I've probably made myself feel like a second-class performer - being part time - but I see that I'm not alone and that's far from the case.

I realise that I need to embrace the decisions I've taken and not let it worry me. We're all unique, and at this moment in time, this is what I do (day job and performing) - there's only one of me, and I'm the best at being me

As many have said, if some potential customers get turned off from me through negative feedback from other performers - then that's there decision. I know I don't need to behave that way to be successful, and have an excellent strike rate when people meet me at wedding fayres - so I know I'm doing something right.

Thanks again everyone

Don't forget that Alex Elmsley was an amateur magician, with a 'day job' as a computer programmer.

The Last Deck on the Left wrote:Today I noticed a World Magic Shop advert promoting a forthcoming release - "The reactions were unbelievable and this utility device is guranteed to take your routines to the next level totally destroying laymen"

Yes, I neither wish to knock 'em dead nor break a leg!

I'm waiting for an honest advert that says "Will make slightly more members your audience go 'huh, clever!' and shrug!"

‭It's true that some part time magicians are very professional and some full time magicians are less than professional, however I feel that with another job,‭ ‬there is less pressure for a magician to improve.‭ With magic as your only source of income, you either swim or you sink (and then return to a part time / full time job).