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Thank you gents for all your replys. Probably should have made my post clearer in the first place on 'fairest' - a totally hands off approach was what I was trying to get at. For this situation I think that the cross cut force would work best for this overall effect as well as a forcing deck,

But thinking over the entire 3 phase effect, I really don't think it makes sense using the book test at the end? Was thinking that each phase was going to be stronger than the last and predicting the first line would be the big finish to the routine , but now think maybe that the book test doesent fit in with the 2 previous phases...... Well anyway cheers for your feedback guys.

Agreed, the book test at the end was, well not my cup of tea but I figured to each their own.

This all remindes me of a one ahead type of thing, you may want to look into it.

or not

To be honest, even using ESP cards side by side with playing cards could seem a little odd. I realise you are progressing from a 'one in five' to a 'one in 52', but there are other ways to do this.

Could you not achieve a similar (and more coherent) progression by predicting the colour (1/2), then the suit (1/4), then the value (1/13), then the complete identity (1/52) of four consecutive playing cards?

Just a thought.

MatCult wrote: predicting the colour (1/2), then the suit (1/4), then the value (1/13), then the complete identity (1/52)

Technically once you've got the colour then the suit is 1/2 rather than 1/4
colour(1/2)*suit(1/2)*value(1/13)=1/52

This is true.... If it were a single card, but I said "of four consecutive playing cards".


EDIT: By consecutive I mean four cards chosen one after another, rather than four consecutive cards from new deck order. On reflection, I probably wasn't very clear.

For example, after asking a series of questions "to gauge the participant's character" ("What is your favourite colour?", "Marmite - love or hate?", "Name an animal.") the performer makes some mental calculations before writing four predictions on the back of four business cards and placing them face down on the table, numbered 1-4 on their backs.

The participant then (apparently freely) chooses four cards and lays them face up on the table in order next to the prediction cards.

The first card is Eight of Clubs. The spectator turns over the prediction and it says: "A black card."
"Okay, maybe not so impressive," says the performer, "I had a 50/50 chance there. But I was just warming up!"

The second card is King of Hearts. The prediction is turned over and it states: "Definitely a red card, most likely a Heart."
"A bit trickier to know the exact suit, I'm sure you'll agree," says the performer.

The third card is Three of Spades. The prediction reads: "A low number. An odd number. I think a Three."

The final card is 10 of Diamonds. The last prediction is turned over and it states: "I see a fresh start, a change of fortune and promising times ahead, I see the 10 of Diamonds".

There you have a progression for those who are counting the odds, but without the (potentially) jarring shift from ESP cards to playing cards.

Just my thoughts.

I stand by my maths!


If it's 4 cards the odds are 1/270,725

or 1/6,497,400 if you need them to come out in a specific order

Just FYI

Lawrence wrote:I stand by my maths!


If it's 4 cards the odds are 1/270,725

or 1/6,497,400 if you need them to come out in a specific order

Just FYI

Consider me schooled!

I'm going back to the one ahead. Because this just seems like a very convoluted version. And in case somebody doesn't know what I'm talking about I'll put it in brief. And it is like spirit slates only no gimmicks.

Card is chosen. Could be earlier in the set, could be part of the immediate effect doesn't matter.

Ask the person to merely think of the favourite colour. (could be almost any question). Before they reveal anything write it down on a piece of paper. Hold the paper like you are going to make the reveal but first ask what colour they were thinking. They reveal, you put the paper without revealing anything face down on the table. Interesting, let us take this a step further. You have made no hint if your prediction matched. Ask another question and do the exact same thing. Last ask them to remember the card they thought of. Again do the same thing as the other two.

You know what freaks me out? (reveal predictions). And of course they matched all along.

Of course I could be reading your description wrong.

As bmat says, go with a force your happy with and also I would do it like this. Three spectators, sharpie and a A4 pad of paper. Write down the first prediction,tear it off fold in half twice and then get S1 to select a page number and last word on the page selected. Then write and fold up a second prediction. Then get S2 to pick a ESP symbol. Finally write and fold the third prediction, then force a predetermined card. then you reveal your predictions are correct.

I'd personally go with a pop-eyed popper, as Lawrence suggests. You can show the cards as all being different: "they're not all the ace of spades or whatever", then hand them over to be shuffled. Top card after their shuffle is their selection. Naturally you will have marked the force cards so you can be sure that the right card ends up on top. If not, get them to give the cards a cut. If still not, pick them up and have them touch the back of one of the cards, and you should be home and dry. I've never had to.

by the way, i would say the fairest forces are ones where your hands remain in a similar position to the rest of the trick. I always classic force as its a free offer of the cards, and how you would naturally let them take any card. im using a lot of face up forcing which is even better. cant be fairer and is immensely satisfying.

also mental forces are great. at the moment i've got tricks set up for like... 10 randomly thought of cards. if i miss i just do another trick. nothing better than a trick with the card they want.

Just make youre mannerisms and character not care about the outcome. hey man, i dont care what uyou pick. just name any card, or pick anything oyu like. it doesnt matter.

thats natural cos it really isnt a force.. but is

I agree the pop eyed popper would be a good choice.

The one ahead principle has been mentioned and that's what immediately came to my mind when I read the description - reminds me of the old "Three Way Test". However, to be honest the routine seems a bit of a "mish mash". In the three way test there are three different phenomena demonstrated. In the routine discussed in this thread it is the same phenomena (knowing or reading someones thought), with a progression of impossibility as the odds get more challenging. In a piece like this it would probably be better to read the thoughts after each individual part - "that worked well with five cards, let's try it with the full deck" sort of thing. Revealing each seperately gives reason for the progression and makes more sense than revealing everything at the end. The impact of each seperate part may also be dampened - knowing the choice of esp card from a deck of 25 is going to pale into insignificance alongside a choice of word from thousands, when revealed at the same time.

The choice of effects and props is odd. Again I think you may be sacrificing impact when using these together in a routine like this. A good, simple esp routine can be very powerful, and much of the potential impact is going to be lost. The same could be said for a well presented book test.

Just my tuppence worth.


Jim