talkmagic.co.uk

Hey everyone,

This is going to be kind of hard to get across what I want to say, so do bare with me (obviously we are all magicians, so it makes it a little easier to just use the right words, but I still dont want to come across as disrespectful to anyone).

My basic question / confusion is this:

What is lockpicking / escapism?

So, lets start from the top - I know that there are LOTS of fakes / gimmicks out there; Locks with fake keys, fake handcuffs, thumb ties which will undo if twisted the correct way, fake rope, fake chains, fake escape jackets, trick keys and even electronic gimmicks.
There are DVD's which teach these methods and even explain how you can hide keys, picks or even just bits of metal in various places on your person.
However, there are also (apparent) 'real' escape artists - these people (claim) to be the real deal, they dont use fakes, they dont use picks, the 'just escape' from a real straight jacket, escape from a real padlocked box etc.
As stated above, I have some books, gimmicks and DVD's about this genre of magic (and even a few locks used for different tricks; a supalock springs to mind here as well as a 'gravity' padlcok which I never use). My real question is, WHY would these people claim to be 'the real deal' if they are just using methods and/or fakes?
I get that its all an act and that if you are bound in chain, that escaping is a relativly quick process which is all in the acting and the presentation of the escape to sell the act (as with lots of magic), but I cant see why (if at all) its worth claiming, even to other performers, that its not fake, that you are the real thing when you arent.

I can see that people might think I am being disrespectfull to magic performers who may perfom like this - I am not. I am very new to this style of performing and after watching an archived Channel4 show on a magician who performs escapism and lock picking I am now very interested and would love to have some material (picks, bump keys etc) to try out lock picking on, and would ideally love to work some of it into an act and be able to hand things out, explain the art form etc. But am just very confused based on my research so far.

It almost seems that its like a mentalist (using known techniques and methods) claiming to be a real mind reader, or really being able to talk to the dead ... and that never happens, right?
[As I said above, I'm not digging at mentalists here, but its the next closest example I can think of there are clearly obvious 'mentalist' gimmicks available, OW decks for an obvious example, and there are some VERY clever gimmicks which are very underground and secretive, even among magicians. But ultimately, behind the act, we all know its a trick and that there are methods somewhere in it. I'm not trying to detract from the SHOW that people put on and the characters that they may present themsevles as (Derren Brown for example, ot that style of psychological illusionist), its more about the idea of ACTUAL lockpickingas an art vs the idea of using gimmicks and putting on a show]

In a nutshell, I'm sort of saying that I am finding 2 kinds of lockpicking performers; those who are willing to teach and explain its a trick to other performers and those who are claiming to be real, and saying that they cant teach it because its real (Uri Gellar prings to mind here too)

Rant over, can anyone add anything haha

Dan

A parallel might be drawn to different kinds of performers of other kinds of magic and magic-like feats, too. If you're going to be buried alive for a week, there are a multitude of ways in which you could "fake" it, and that's why endurance magicians who've performed this kind of feat have sometimes gone to incredible lengths to ensure that there's never any doubt about their predicament. Even on the smaller scale: when I casually dribble a gimmicked deck while I deliver my patter, I'm quietly 'lying' to the audience by making them think that it's a normal deck full of regular cards... and there are plenty of magicians out there - such as those who are far more-confident in their classic force than I am - who might be able to attain a particular effect without the crutch of a rigged deck.

That's why those who perform feats like escapism 'for real' these days - talented (and usually very flexible) people who can wriggle out of a straightjacket and remarkable people who can pick a lock with their hands tied behind their back (I struggle when I'm holding the lock in my hands, unless it's one with which I'm intimately familiar!) - have to go to such lengths to impress their audiences: opening their act up to an incredible level of inspection that might not be possible to less-'real' performers. And then, of course, the 'fakers' have to work harder still to keep parity - to make their gimmicked effects as 'real-looking' as possible...

In short, it's an arms race.

For me, though, I assimilate these different approaches by considering the perspective of the spectator. If I were to escape from handcuffs in front of an audience, then producing them, still locked shut, for inspection, then some of the audience would - regardless of my explanation! - assume that I'd wriggled free; others would assume that I'd palmed a key; others still would assume that they were gimmicked 'cuffs (and that perhaps the audience member who inspected them was a stooge, or else the gimmick is very subtle); yet others still wouldn't even put much thought into the method of the trick. What the audience cares about most, though, isn't the "genuineness" of the performance but it's entertainment value: did it give them enjoyment? Surprise? Shock? Amusement?

Among card-handling magicians, there's a certain level of respect for those who can pull off the most-challenging sleights under the most-difficult conditions. Similarly, then, I'd expect that among escapologists, there's a similar respect for folks who can legitimately extract themselves from the most-challenging restraints under the most-difficult conditions. But even if I can pull off those most-challenging sleights, does that make me a good magician? No: what I need is showmanship and an audience rapport, charisma (of some variety or other), an engaging attitude, etc. The same's true of escapologists.

Sophistication of technique matters, and it can make the difference between a good entertainer and a great one. But what makes the difference between a mediocre entertainer and a good one in the eyes of their audience isn't how they do their feats, but how they present them. Most of the work towards doing things in a 'genuine' way benefits your reputation in front of others of your craft, not the laypeople who will comprise the vast majority of your audiences.

In short: yeah, I agree with you.

(I have no idea what an OW deck is, by the way, unless I'm calling it something else)

It is all just a matter of technique.

Nobody is going to get out a set of legit Smith and Wesson handcuffs without some sort of tool. Anyone can claim to be the real deal, especially if they are not using gimmicked equipment. If you are using rope or duct tape, there are techniques that must be employed. If you ask me, if you can get out you are an escape artist. If not you are screwed at that point.

PS I don't know many people who use a gimmicked straight jacket. Even I can get out of a legit one it is not difficult. Perhaps they are useful in a metamorphasis which needs to happen quick, like in seconds, (it takes me less than two minutes to get out of a straight jacket) and I am not an escapeologist in any form. I did it to see if I could once I knew how.

I can also pick locks. Lock picking is an art on its own and very few in the field actually pick locks, usually a lock is raked (you hit all the tumblers pretty much in one swoop rather than deal with each one individually). Most of the escape artists I know resist picking in any fashion as it is too time consuming and you have to go to the bother of hiding a lock pick which usually involves using more than one tool on the lock at the same time. Most I know are showmen and they do what needs to be done to get the job done and be entertaining. Just as any magician should.

And just a note while on the subject. I suck at lock picking, but I can get into any Master lock in about 6 minutes. Yet the cheap dime store locks I have a terrible time with.

I think it's a question of presentation. In the Western world, very few people will believe that a magician can really do magic. If you could do magic for real, why would you "waste" your powers making balls appear or disappear from under cups or getting the same card to come to the top of the pack again and again?

Now, take the same audiences and show them a "voodoo hexing rite" (ahem) or a séance and more people start to buy into it. Even if they don't really believe, there is that underlying superstition/cultural assumption about some of thse things. That's why perfectly rational people can think there is something odd about Tarot cards or shun walking under ladders, even when no one is up them. Incidentally, the last time I walked under a ladder, I won an iPad mini in a raffle that evening. Last week, I crossed a road at a different place from normal to avoid going under one.

Also, who really needs the amazing power of making sponge rabbits multiply or move around. Yes, it's great fun, but no one really wants the magical ability to do this. What if you could genuinely cheat at cards, or see into the future? Wouldn't it be good to have a useful skill? Would you tell the audience, "No, I can't really second deal, it's just a trick deck?" Why would you undermine your presentation?

To use another example, if a tightrope walker just walks straight across, where is the challenge? Where is the drama? Now, if that same walker wobbles a little in the middle, seems to lose their footing, not only is there a suggestion of danger to retain interest, but the walk itself looks more difficult and skilful.

Escaping a straitjacket in ten seconds is a magic trick. It could have been bought. "I could do that, if I knew where to buy it," people might think (ignoring the days/weeks of practice needed to get it that smooth).

Escaping a straitjacket in three minutes is a skill. "It must have been tough to learn to do that and wow, imagine being able to wriggle out of the toughest types of restraint they use in asylums."

To summarise, magic is a performing art, and performance artists (ideally) use showmanship. Sell the steak and the sizzle.

Why tell other performers you are legit when you use the normal methods? Because magicians cannot keep their mouths shut.

Part-Timer wrote:Escaping a straitjacket in ten seconds is a magic trick. Escaping a straitjacket in three minutes is a skill.

Can I get that printed on a t-shirt please. Or else on a straightjacket.

Part-Timer wrote:I think it's a question of presentation. In the Western world, very few people will believe that a magician can really do magic. If you could do magic for real, why would you "waste" your powers making balls appear or disappear from under cups or getting the same card to come to the top of the pack again and again?

Now, take the same audiences and show them a "voodoo hexing rite" (ahem) or a séance and more people start to buy into it. Even if they don't really believe, there is that underlying superstition/cultural assumption about some of thse things. That's why perfectly rational people can think there is something odd about Tarot cards or shun walking under ladders, even when no one is up them. Incidentally, the last time I walked under a ladder, I won an iPad mini in a raffle that evening. Last week, I crossed a road at a different place from normal to avoid going under one.

Also, who really needs the amazing power of making sponge rabbits multiply or move around. Yes, it's great fun, but no one really wants the magical ability to do this. What if you could genuinely cheat at cards, or see into the future? Wouldn't it be good to have a useful skill? Would you tell the audience, "No, I can't really second deal, it's just a trick deck?" Why would you undermine your presentation?

To use another example, if a tightrope walker just walks straight across, where is the challenge? Where is the drama? Now, if that same walker wobbles a little in the middle, seems to lose their footing, not only is there a suggestion of danger to retain interest, but the walk itself looks more difficult and skilful.

Escaping a straitjacket in ten seconds is a magic trick. It could have been bought. "I could do that, if I knew where to buy it," people might think (ignoring the days/weeks of practice needed to get it that smooth).

Escaping a straitjacket in three minutes is a skill. "It must have been tough to learn to do that and wow, imagine being able to wriggle out of the toughest types of restraint they use in asylums."

To summarise, magic is a performing art, and performance artists (ideally) use showmanship. Sell the steak and the sizzle.

Why tell other performers you are legit when you use the normal methods? Because magicians cannot keep their mouths shut.

I agree one hundred percent. I can escape from a straight jackets very quickly. Would I if I were putting on a show. Heck no! I'd be wiggling and squirming the entire time to create drama.

If the question was, is it magic? I'd still say no, escapology is still a skill, you are not magically escaping from the straight jacket in full view of the audience. If you are in a straight jacket and shoved into a trunk and then suddenly you appear somewhere else then it becomes a magic effect. To hang tied upside down from a crane in full view and then wiggle out is a skill and is not magic even though the method is pretty pretty much the same.

So yes it becomes presentation and how you 'sell' it and how the audience percieves it.

As ever, great words of advice here guys and gals - thanks for everything

I think I need to think more about how I want to incorporate escapism into my routine and what sorts of props (gimmicked, ungimmicked etc) I should use

Dan