talkmagic.co.uk

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I agree with you that any trick can be turned into something worthwhile. Dunninger once said, "nail-thru-finger will suffice IF you have some way of hypnotizing and magnetizing that audience." His point being, of course, that almost ANY trick can be turned into an entertaining experience thru presentation and showmanship. However, I do feel that some tricks SUIT certain performers more than others. I suppose it goes without saying but it's important to choose good material that will work for YOU.

I also agree that too many magicians (especially those new to magic) try to collect as many tricks as possible before truly learning the ones they already know. My favourite author Corinda said it best:

"My honest advice for what it is worth, is to spend less time searching for new effects and more time working on those you already have. It is an achievement in one life to be able to do six (effects) perfectly and if you get this far, then you are entitled to play games and fiddle with novel diversions."

While I agree with the original post. And I always try to give that advice. It will usually fall on deaf ears. And after thinking about it for some time I am glad it falls on deaf ears. I've learned I'm wrong to give the above mentioned advice. I will hint at it because it is true and I hope a little of that sinks into some skulls.

The truth is learning magic involves going through certain steps, and one of those steps, and usually the first is aquiring magic. Both the pyhsical effects and the sleight of hand methods. It is natural to try and learn all those sleights with no effect in mind to actually use all those hard learned (but mostly useless moves).

Some, and usually it is the actually performers who progress past this stage, Like you who actually stepped off the edge and decided to earn some money and came to the realizaztion that to be successfull at magic you first have understand that above all, it is a business.

I give the above advice when I hear people say, that they 'Mastered' Bobo, or Royal road. oh really? Mastered huh? Show me an effect. I'm telling magician's all the time to put down the books. Get out the svengali deck and learn to perform. I've been to peoples homes who have hundreds of books and DVD's and props and have never performed a single one because they are learning all this stuff to become good. They never will. They may be wonderful at home in front of a mirror. But until they perform all the rest is pretty much a waste. Those people I call magic enthusiasts but you can't really be a magician without showing some magic.

So I am behind you 100 percent with the advice you give, but I give people a little time before I start to pound it in.

I rather think that Paul Pacific had better learn nail through finger immediately. I prefer it to his three part prediction. And I wonder who told him about that Dunninger quote? No doubt a genius of the first magnitude. I wish I could remember his name.

Alas I am afraid Bmat is correct. Giving advice to other magicians does tend to fall on deaf ears. The trouble is they already think they know everything. At best they will agree with you but either think they are already doing it or simply pay lip service to what you are saying and go on to do what they are doing anyway. At worst they won't even listen to you and go on repeating the same old mistakes that may be glaringly obvious to you but not to them. It is as if they are on a train destined to crash and they refuse to get off when they have the chance.

For example I know a chap who insists on mixing classical magic with profanity. He even scripts in the swear word. And it is the worst swear word of them all. I have told him a thousand times that this is not the way to go but he never listens. I consider that the second you swear on stage is the second you are a bad magician. But then I am terribly old fashioned.

The same chap chatters interminably taking perhaps 10 minutes to do a trick which could be over in three. Lots of chatter and very little action. Again I have told him this repeatedly but again alas he takes no notice despite the advice by Corinda thus:

"Occasionally one sees a trick performed and after waiting perhaps nine minutes to reach the end, you are never sure whether they clap because they liked the trick or because it has reached the end at last. Whenever I see this sort of thing, when it gets to five minutes, I pray the thing will work because it scares me that in the event of failure the perfomer might have to have another go from the beginning again"

So yes. It is completely pointless giving advice to magicians especially the younger ones. Walter 'Zaney Blaney" said that when you do magic you go through four stages.
1. You don't know but you don't know that you don't know. The performer I am referring to comes into this category
2. You don't know but you KNOW that you don't know. I think performers who fit into this category are my favourites because they are often prepared to listen and be guided by those who DO know!
3. You know but you don't know that you know. It takes a long time to get to this stage, perhaps a lifetime.
4. You know and you KNOW that you know. This is the best and final stage. The problem is that quite a few magicians are at stage one but think they are at stage four. But eventually through bad experiences they wake up one day and realise what stage they are really at. And the sooner the better for them.

Ever Elizalde wrote:When you start getting gigs, doing a show here, a show there, a restaurant 3 nights a week... the hobby dies a little bit.
you have to realize that this is Show Business, and Business is bigger than Show. You have to stop learning and creating tricks for you, and start doing it for the audience.
Stop wasting your time learning every sleight and every trick that is showed in a book, or every single trick that is released on some famous magic web sites. And start focusing on those moves and tricks that you're really going to use, those that works, not to fooled magicians, that's not our goal; but those that really works in front of a real audience.
Forget about wanting to know every little secret, and focusing in doing a good presentation for whatever trick you do. As far as I'm concerned you could do the lamest trick in the world and make it interesting with a good presentation.
If you can do 5 tricks, and you can do it better than anyone, you're good to go. You will be adding more effects as you grow.

If you have any questions to ask, ask them. I will be pleasured to answer if i can.

I have a question. Didn't you make your "last post" a couple of weeks ago?

MatCult wrote:I have a question. Didn't you make your "last post" a couple of weeks ago?

Yes, and then he decided to stick around a little longer, hence this thread.

Assuming you can do a 'set' with, say, 6 routines you'd certainly need some back up effects in case some of the six turn out to be inappropriate. Didn't Dynamo once turn up at a gig to find that there were mirrors all over the place which meant most of his sleight of hand stuff with cards would be seen by all and sundry? Time for a rope trick there, methinks!

By all means investigate the newer stuff being released but only on the basis that you might find one in a hundred effects which you could include or, more likely, use the basic method in a different setting.

As for using the same stuff over and over, Paul Daniels has performed the same basic cabaret act for many years with great success but he also keeps some extra effects handy in case something doesn't work or is somehow not appropriate. Penn & Teller and Lance Burton kept to the same show in Las Vegas for ages but introduced new items and retired others gradually as and when they felt it was right to do so.

bmat wrote:While I agree with the original post. And I always try to give that advice. It will usually fall on deaf ears. And after thinking about it for some time I am glad it falls on deaf ears. I've learned I'm wrong to give the above mentioned advice. I will hint at it because it is true and I hope a little of that sinks into some skulls.

The truth is learning magic involves going through certain steps, and one of those steps, and usually the first is aquiring magic. Both the pyhsical effects and the sleight of hand methods. It is natural to try and learn all those sleights with no effect in mind to actually use all those hard learned (but mostly useless moves).

Some, and usually it is the actually performers who progress past this stage, Like you who actually stepped off the edge and decided to earn some money and came to the realizaztion that to be successfull at magic you first have understand that above all, it is a business.

I give the above advice when I hear people say, that they 'Mastered' Bobo, or Royal road. oh really? Mastered huh? Show me an effect. I'm telling magician's all the time to put down the books. Get out the svengali deck and learn to perform. I've been to peoples homes who have hundreds of books and DVD's and props and have never performed a single one because they are learning all this stuff to become good. They never will. They may be wonderful at home in front of a mirror. But until they perform all the rest is pretty much a waste. Those people I call magic enthusiasts but you can't really be a magician without showing some magic.

So I am behind you 100 percent with the advice you give, but I give people a little time before I start to pound it in.

Ain't that the truth, get the Svengali out and go and perform

I started a few years back with a Svengali and ID, before I knew any sleights, and it builds confidence, teaches you how to handle different types of people, and other valuable lessons